I enjoyed Dog Borstal last night, felt for the guy crying over the Kelpi, beautiful little dog, makes you wonder if maybe boredom had a lot to do with the bad attitude, I can see how the touch would have worked but probably would take longer than dog borstal would allow...Inka and Kain were watching again I'm gonna take a video of them next week.

Hi Ramble, not replying to your thread just using your post to follow on from

From what I saw of the programme, this dog didn't have fear agression. It was shown in it's own house looking quite happy and relaxed. This was a dog that had been left to take charge and had turned into a bully.
In regards to it being made to sit. That is normal training if a dog won't sit. Then the left hand is used to encourage the bottom down. I did feel he was a bit heavy handed though and should of had it explained to him how to safely put the dog in the sit position. It did show in the programme that after a while, the dog did calm and go into a sit. The dog looked far more relaxed and was quite clearly listening to the owner. On most occasions the owner did praise him. I think the instructor did right to let the other owner handle him. It's the owner that has to live with the dog, not the instructor. The dog had to learn to respect the owner first of all.
Yes I did hear the owner say "you are not going to win". I think people who have not had to have a dog like the Kelpie cannot appreciate the frustration or upset that can be created. Most people would have given up and had the dog destroyed.
I think we can all pull programmes like this to pieces with our own knowledge and experiences, however if someone has taking something positive from it then good. Four days of training is put into a short programme, so there will be parts missing.
Although i reel at some people and their lack of education of dogs. I totally respect these people for having the guts to put themselves and their dogs on TV. How many of us would allow the public to pull us to pieces in the public forum of television.

Good post megan57collies, I agree.

I would like to comment on people talking about the Kelpie being 'hung'.
He wasn't 'hung'. His back legs didn't leave the floor. The owner was told to raise his hand in the air when he was about to be bitten. It was only for a few seconds.

I don't remember him telling the Kelpie off. The only thing I remember him saying was when he shouted that the dog wasn't going to win.
I've done that to Teagan before.
Dog training can be very frustrating, and of course, it's hard not to loose your temper slightly, especially when your dog has been biting you (no matter who's fault it is).

Oh OK, well that could explain his role, then

Wys
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Hi Ramble (can't quite get used to calling you that, yet, but will do soon I'm sure )

Thanks for that.

I think someone said - was it Spot? - the dog had been hung before the programme, presume that was before anything to do with the programme. Not sure if that has any relevance, or exactly what did happen, but it could possibly explain how the dog has been trained in the past, (only surmising here, of course) in which case the dog could well be hand shy and therefore aggressive, simply due to previous training. Lack of exercise and mental work can also be bad for Kelpies as Willow mentions in the other thread; BCs can be the same, they can make their own "work"if not given some, and get very stressed, too.

Dogs who are overly stressed, for whatever reason, often can't hear because a different part of their brain takes over. The reactive part is to the fore, the thinking part takes back seat, which may explain the dog not sitting (presume it did normally sit?).

Of course this isnt always the case, but it sounds like it in this situation.

I don't think this dog should have been on the programme, as Rob and owner would have been under pressure - not good. If the dog bit the poor handler again on the last day, it's simply learnt more and more that it can bite. Practising the behaviour will ensure the dog gets worse, not better...3 days is nothing when it comes to this kind of aggression. I'd also want a very thorough vet check on this Kelpie to rule out any concerns of a medical nature which could be causing extreme reactions.



Wys
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I'd like to bet most are "stooge"dogs TBH

Can I jump in with my opinion ?

First off, not all kelpies are like that

I was near tears last night watching that dog. What people have to remember is that Kelpies are bred to be working sheep out on the stations all day, they are working machines and dont take to living in a flat with a local stroll around the park (which is what looked like was happening in that particular case) god knows why the dog was so aggressive, I'm no where near as knowledgable as some of the other members on here are, but knowing Kelpies I'd be willing to place a big bet the fact the dog had 'turned/whatever you want to call it' was due to lack of exercise/stimulation and the fact they treated it like a kid. I was furious with the owners for letting the dog get that way.

I adore the breed (much more than I love my retrievers) but I know that I cant provide the stimulation and time needed to keep one.

I just couldnt justify keeping one in a flat with only an hour or so's free running in the park. Or even one is a house. They need a job to do, EVERY DAY. Well certainly the ones I was brought up with and the ones I have known all have. Kelpies are as common as labs and collies back home in Aus.

Even with me saying how much I adore the breed, down to the fact it was a dog that was biting like that. There were seriously nasty injuries it was inflicting on it's owners and if it had been in my hands and bitten once like that, it would have been it's last bite. That dog was very very dangerous and I would have had it PTS.

If only all prospective owners of such dogs thought like you, Willow

Well said. Kelpies are a good example of a dog that really needs to do something - and we all know about BCs, working bred Springers, working cockers and all those other busy dogs out there bred to do something. How many get anywhere near to having fulfilling lives mentally and physically? It's so wrong when folk have a dog bred to work that is expected to wander round the park whilst they chat to friends or are on their mobile phone (not commenting here on the kelpie owners as I have no idea how they walked their dog, that is just a general comment).

I believe strongly that most dogs, if not all, actually could do with far more mental and physical stimulation than they are provided with. IF not, they will find their own way in life - and that isn't always a pleasant way for their owners.

Wys
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Couldn't agree more

Hi Joedee, you may well be right, I wonder. It appears that the dogs are usually on their home territory, that's the only thing - as far as I can tell...