One thing is standard, another is what the judges likes and will reward

That's true Amts.

In the UK you will find that judges that award dogs that are too far out of the standard will not get people going under them, bearing in mind the fact that no dog is perfect it is up to the judge to choose the dog that fits the type the best, of course, some are better than others at this skill but then as dogs are dogs and people are people you would not expect either to perform like a machine.

Standards are produced by the breed clubs after consultation with their members, they aim in most cases to maintain the dogs health and conformation, it is something to be aimed for by breeders, and breeding outside this is inevitable but to continue to breed from stock that is outside the standard is just asking to loose the breed altogether. If a dog does not look like the breed it purports to be it is not of type and may as well be a crossbreed or a mongrel because it is not typical of 'the breed'. You only have to look at some of the photographs available on the internet to see the appalling conformation of some crossbreed, feel very worried if these poor specimens of the canine race are bred, the offspring will become progressively less able to function and some are already showing signs of not being able to carry there own weight.

Someone asked if well if I am judging I would hope so , your comment about yorkies made me laugh, vermin, they don't stop at vermin, bring in a horse

Think the trouble is we are used to seeing badly bred specimens that have been bred with no thought as to the standard and that I think is what worries people who care about the future of dogs. If you think that dogs would be better off just bred to the nearest partner regardless of any consideration then forget the standards but if you care about the diversity and the health of dogs you had better take note of it.

No one suggests that the standards are perfect but they are all we have to try and retain the type and health of the breeds that have been given to us by years of careful breeding.

Just a quick note - do not use this thread as an opportunity to slate anyone elses breed.

I do hope you are not suggestion I have, but I guess you are, if so please remove my post I am only interesting in posting in an open honest manner and not in upsetting people. However if honest and heartfelt opinions are not welcome then you have it in your power to remove them.

Agree with Jackie & Archer. It`s like having a recipe for a classic dish & then you start adding different proportions &/or ingredients, the original dish would soon be lost & the end result will be a mishmash of all sorts.

Hi Thords, I haven't read the posts apart from the first one.

Please don't assume just because I made a statement it was directed at you - If any of my posts are directed at any one individual, I either quote that persons post in question, in my own post or mention that persons name in my post (like I have done in this one)

I am shortly going to be introducing some new rules for the debates section.

Jenny, If you read my post you would see that im not suggesting breed standards being dropped, and for your records i didnt buy tj for looks i brought him as a working dog...

Jenny i brought him to work, not to look good and prance around a show ring..

hi gems, i didnt intend to upset you nor did i mean to presume that u bought tj for looks. All i am saying, like thords, is that if you are too lenient (sp?) on standards, then you may lose the breed altogether. I dont know how collies work, but i assume if people bred larger collies together and they eventually ended up mastiff size, then they would not be very good at herding? or maybe they would... i dont know much of anything, i was jus tryin to get my opinion across, but i dont come across very well cos im clueless