Remus rant!!

I will try not to swear!

Remus had recovered well from his previous crate trauma and he had got used to being left in the crate for an hour in the morning while I do the school drop off (that's the time he's likely to hassle Tonks to play) and then for up to three hours post big walk sleeping in the kitchen with Tonks (I know that's what they do as I have been using dog monitor for those times).

Yesterday he refused to have a wee when I left him pre walk while I went to do a big shop. I thought I would be gone an hour but it turned out to be 2 hours as I forgot to take cash or cards with me and didn't realised until I was at the checkout...all food packed up.

When I got home he had peed in the crate and wrecked the crate from the inside bending the bars....but he didn't get out.

Last night he was out of the crate in the kitchen and once again woke me up needed a wee at 3.30. I'm certain the only reason he needs a wee is because he gets himself wound up as he can sleep in our room all night and not need a wee. S I'm conspiring giving up and having him upstairs again.

Anyway. Today I crate Tonks for the school run, I can't leave them together as she has injured her cruciate ligament. I get back after just an hour and he ****** has wrecked the crate from the outside with Tonks sat in it!! I bloody depair! One bloody hour! He is so frustrating because he'll go a few weeks absolutely fine and then do things like this!

As soon as I'm home he's upstairs on the bed asleep. I've tried leaving him with access to our bedroom but he centres destruction around the front door. It is so frustrating. We've had him from 20 weeks, done all the 'right" things re crate training and building up the time left but if he doesn't want to go to sleep he will not accept being left.

Oh dear. What are you going to be able to do about this canine delinquent? My only thought is take him everywhere with you until you come up with a brainwave?

I felt sorry for Tonks - all good in his crate and the n'er do well trying to break in! Perhaps look at constructing a padded cell add-on to your house?

I had neighbours in Newlyn who had a Beagle that just COULD NOT be left on its own. I used to mind it for them if they had to go somewhere without it. They were sensible people and had tried all sorts but honestly, if left, it used to EAT THEIR HOUSE! I don't mean just chew up the odd item. It gnawed through window frames and door frames. Real serious damage. Big problem and they weren't too happy when I moved away! But apart from when left home alone this dog was a darling and a doddle to look after. I loved it (but then it never ate my house).

It occurs to me that Remus is never left alone much really anyway coz he's always got Tonks there hasn't he? So it's more a case really of him hating you going out without him?

Yes it is being left without people that he hates. Unfortunately he can't go everywhere with us, dogs are not allowed in the school or preschool grounds, or parks etc so it would really cut down where the girls could go. He had really got into the routine of it recently and I thought we were over it ....but no. Tomorrow I'm going to try giving him half his breakfast at 7.30 then stuffing a kong with soaked food and maybe freezing it...see if that will help. One of them will have to be crated while Tonks is covering.

He was supposed to be crate trained when we adopted him but sometimes he was crated with another dog, and he was always crated in a room with five other dogs so there was lots to look at and lots of company.

wouldn't have a clue how to deal with it,but one thing that does stand out is,please don't give up and take him back upstairs.Dogs as you know are not a bit slow and because he woke you in the middle of the night if you take him upstairs now basically he's being rewarded and he wins.Kinda like a child wanting to sleep with the parents and religiously is taken back to their own room,except for that one night when parents decide to give in and all their hard work goes to pot and it starts all over again.Think he's pushing his boundaries and to let the rules slip even slightly is only going to confuse and also escalate the unwanted behaviour which is getting him exactly what he wants.
Poor Tonks,but its understandable from Remus's point of view.He wants to play,that's his normal routine,obviously doesn't get why Tonks can't and wants her out of the crate.He's a big guy and unfortunately that's dangerous.Only way around that I imagine is to leave Tonks in another room so Remus can't get at her.
You have way more experience than me at dealing with behavoural issues and I have no doubt you'll sort this but from an outsiders point of view this is how I see it.I would stick with the rules and know that sometimes he'll need reminded but whatever you do don't give in

Could you leave him with a muzzle on? Presuming it is his teeth doing the damage rather than his claws?!

On a plus point, I have left him post walk in the kitchen with Tonks recently and got stuck in traffic so was gone three and a half hours and they dozed the whole time.

Another big plus point is that he doesn't do major damage. Today it was pulling all the blankets off the top of the crate, along with Carys' booster seat, pulling the one of the girls dressing gowns and our aprons off the kitchen door and breaking them in the process, emptying the wash basket (I know it's an odd place to have one but we also have one in the bathroom) and chewing the basket so there's bits of wicker spread everywhere. It's sprayed with bitter apple regularly but it must need re spraying. In the hall way preiously he ripped the curtains, chewed the rug and pulled the trim off the car seat.

Unfortunately I think we are going to have to take him back upstairs, even though I get your point, because at least when he is upstairs the girls aren't being woken up at ridiculous hours of the night. He's been downstairs three weeks now and when he has woken me in the night previously he gets marched out to the toilet and back to the kitchen and left. But last night I got so sick of it that when he whined a second time (I'd already been up at 2.30) I just took him upstairs...knowing that I was positively reinforcing whining and that I'd reinforced it in the most effective way because I'd reinforced him on a variable reinforcement schedule...so now he'll try even harder to get me to take him upstairs.

I just think its unfair on Carys and Merryn, just starting out at school and preschool to be being woken up at 5am.... When they then can't go back to sleep.

Although I've considered that idea I'm not keen on it really because its not getting to the route course of him not liking to be left...which I thought we had got to a point of him tolerating.

He has to learn to be left for one hour pre walk in the morning because there's no way I will be able to get the girls out of the house and walk him before they go to school and preschool. He had seemed to have got it but then of course we've had the six weeks off...although he as ok last week....but then he was just in the kitchen with Tonks.

I did think that too, but then you aren't getting to the route cause anyway and he is just going to end up trashing more and more stuff and potentially doing himself a mischief! I think I would go ahead and muzzle him if he were mine. You have to go out and leave him anyway, and at least him and your house will be safe. You can still work on addressing the root cause.

Unfortunately I think we are going to have to take him back upstairs, even though I get your point, because at least when he is upstairs the girls aren't being woken up at ridiculous hours of the night. He's been downstairs three weeks now and when he has woken me in the night previously he gets marched out to the toilet and back to the kitchen and left. But last night I got so sick of it that when he whined a second time (I'd already been up at 2.30) I just took him upstairs...knowing that I was positively reinforcing whining and that I'd reinforced it in the most effective way because I'd reinforced him on a variable reinforcement schedule...so now he'll try even harder to get me to take him upstairs.

I'm a dope but I don't understand "variable reinforcement schedule"what does that mean?

The easiest way to describe it is with gambling as an example. With gambling you don't get a reward every time you bet....like you do with the change machines in slot machine arcades, with those you put your money in and get the exactly same amount of money back out every single time. People don't get addicted to change machines because the repetitiveness of it is predictable...but they do get addicted to gambling because they never quite know when they are going to get rewared or how big the reward it, or when they are going to get the jack pot but they hope that if they keep repeating the behaviour they will at some point get the reward and maybe even the jack pot. That's a variable reward schedule.

So when teaching your dog something it's best to treat everytime initially and then move to treating sometimes, but all the time, and with a variety of treats so that when they do the thing you are trying to teach them really well...they get the jack pot treat!

Of course it also works when we don't want it to. So for three weeks Remus has been in the kitchen and if he whines a little but he gets ignored, but as he winds himself up he begins to need a wee so I have to come down but give minimal reward, but he still gets the reward of me being there (no eye contact, no playing just open the back door say toilet..straight back to his bed and I go away) but sometimes Paul when Paul has to get up for work its often 4 am so as soon as he's up Remus whines...but Paul has no option but go down stairs. He still ignores both dogs, but Remus has still got a pretty powerful reward. So then Paul leaves and intially Remus did go three days going straight back to sleep again...but he's learning that whining gets him somewhere because he is beginning to use whining more to get rewarded.

Last night I had enough so at 3.30 I just brought him upstairs....JACK POT!!

So I've put him on a variable reward schedule over the past three weeks and last night proved to him that it was worth whining because he kept getting rewarded and last night he got the jack pot...not only being in our bedroom but on our bed because I didn't want to clatter around carrying his bed up and risk waking the girls.