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Location: Yorkshire, UK
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05-04-2009, 01:11 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox 
I agree, you dont put up fences , that the animals cant make!! if the fences where to big the horses would not get over them......ANY OF THEM!!!!!!
I dont think you can randomly die of a broken leg!!
But I have seen a horse that broke a leg in a field it stood their all night, till the owner found it in the morning... the horse was brought up to the stable (the owner refused to have it PTS in the field) .. it has to walk on 3 legs to its stable, where it was propped up for 2 wks with bales of hay to stop it doing down... the end result was it needed to be PTS..
I was fence jug ding at a 3* event a good few yrs back, a horse smashed its leg on the fence and we heard it brake, the jockey did not, the horse carried on running doing another jump... it was eventually pulled up and pts.
I remember a few yrs back a horse having an aneurysm in the field it dropped like a brick... I could go on... you have been lucky not to witness such things, but they do happen..
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Location: UK
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05-04-2009, 01:19 PM
Originally Posted by Reisu
If horses are so fragile, why are they raced in this manner? Why on earth not just lower the jumps, or at least make them straightforward so that they've not got a big drop on a ditch on one side? Because then it wouldn't be as entertaining, they wouldn't make as much money...
Even if only (for lack of a better word!) two died in the national itself, that's still 1 in 20. 5%. I'm sure 5% of all horses don't die by running around in the fields every day, you know? At the end of the day their lives were cut short in the name of human entertainment. I can't think of any legal dog sport that is that dangerous, or that any of us here would let our dogs participate in. Jobie could easily break one of his spindly legs by jumping over something too big, so I don't let him. No way would I train him to jump over bigger and bigger things, which would constitute even more of a risk of severe injury if his judgement lapsed. Why are horses any different?
Run free horsies.
Taking your comment on the size of the fence and lowering them..
The fact is these "national hunt " horses are huge, most will be 16 hh plus... they are bred to run ans jump, it is in their blood... you put a horse that is going at a gallop , that is capable of jumping over a 5 ft plus fence, with the same spam in width... at a jump that is to small, it may cause more accidents... A horse needs to be able to see a fence, judged it, and naturally back itself of , to collect and find the scope to clear the fence.... by doing as you suggest could mean the horse has no respect for the fence , taking it recklessly... the jockey on board has to also gage the fence, but when you have a horse pulling to get to the fence , you need for your own safety and the horses , one that collects , before taking the fence on.
A ditch in front of a fence again is a safety measure , it makes 1) the fence more inviting 2) gives the horse something to look at , and collect its self before taking it.. when you have a ditch , the horse should bascule over the fence... a horse that jumps flat, is not one who will clear a fence... they need to collect and spring.
I guess a horse is different because it has the scope to jump over big fences... so why not put to use their ability to do so....
just like with agility, they love doing it, they are put to their height restrictions and all involved dogs and people enjoy the sport....
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Location: UK
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05-04-2009, 01:27 PM
Originally Posted by mse2ponder
Two anecdotal incidents of horses dying in fields - are you saying this kind of thing happens all the time? Is it comparable to the percentage of horses that die on the track? Do you dispute that horses are at more risk when on the track than in a field?
I only stated two, I could give you many many more..
Of Cause they are more at risk, than being in a field, any combination of competition where horses are concerned will have more risk than when standing in a field.. my point was that they can and do , have the same injuries whether they are in fields, stables , on the roads (which are the highest percentage of accidents and fatalities)
But we cannot stop following our sports , because of what ifs , we just have to make sure we make it as safe as possible,,
And as you are familiar with the beasts you will know how unpredictable they are , how even with the best training and preparation , things will and can still go wrong...
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Location: Yorkshire, UK
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05-04-2009, 01:41 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox
I only stated two, I could give you many many more..
Of Cause they are more at risk, than being in a field, any combination of competition where horses are concerned will have more risk than when standing in a field.. my point was that they can and do , have the same injuries whether they are in fields, stables , on the roads (which are the highest percentage of accidents and fatalities)
But we cannot stop following our sports , because of what ifs , we just have to make sure we make it as safe as possible,,
And as you are familiar with the beasts you will know how unpredictable they are , how even with the best training and preparation , things will and can still go wrong...
All I'm saying, is that horses are at much more risk from dying when on the track than just happily grazing in a well-maintained paddock. I don't even think I'd say that I disagree with racing per se, but the frequency at which horses die, I find alarming. I know it's not just the National - as when I watch flat racing, horses die too. Do a higher percentage of horses die when taken out on the road than when raced? Do you have any statistics?
I also agree with what you say about human error, as this seems often to be the cause of death, and not just problems with the course: jockeys making mistakes at jumps, letting horses get too close to eachother etc.
Do you think there could be any changes made to the sport to make it more equine-safe?
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Location: UK
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05-04-2009, 01:53 PM
Originally Posted by mse2ponder
Too right!
All I'm saying, is that horses are at much more risk from dying when on the track than just happily grazing in a well-maintained paddock. I don't even think I'd say that I disagree with racing per se, but the frequency at which horses die, I find alarming. I know it's not just the National - as when I watch flat racing, horses die too. Do a higher percentage of horses die when taken out on the road than when raced? Do you have any statistics?
I also agree with what you say about human error, as this seems often to be the cause of death, and not just problems with the course: jockeys making mistakes at jumps, letting horses get too close to each other etc.
Do you think there could be any changes made to the sport to make it more equine-safe?
First no I don't have any statistics at hand to back up the road deaths..but from what I hear from qualified horse people, it seems to be the general consensus, and I am sure there will be some somewhere.
Obviously horse racing happens all over the world so will also have a high percentage of deaths.
Can it be make any safe, I am sure it can, and I am sure people are working on this on a daily basis... nobody is happy to see any horse or rider for that matter injured or death.
The lowering of fences I cant see helping, it was tried in the event world, it did not work, like I said an advanced horse needs to respect a jump, lowering them can cause even more problems... now they have made them easier to dismantle, if a horse hits one it is more likely to break than yrs ago ...
I think everyone involved in any form of horsemanship, is always looking for safety first... may daughter has SJ /Evented, done working hunter at HOYS leval, along with PC and hunting... she has jumped fences I cant even reach the top of... and believe me, safely for both her and her horses is Paramount
And to be honest I dont know anyone who has horses at what ever level, will not consider the safely of their horse first and foremost.
I have many friends in racing.. most in flat racing, now there is a sort that needs looking into..far above the steeple chasers.
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Location: Yorkshire, UK
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05-04-2009, 02:03 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox
First no I don't have any statistics at hand to back up the road deaths..but from what I hear from qualified horse people, it seems to be the general consensus, and I am sure there will be some somewhere.
Obviously horse racing happens all over the world so will also have a high percentage of deaths.
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Location: UK
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05-04-2009, 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by mse2ponder
I've had a quick look and I can't find any either. People hacking out on roads happens all the time, all over the world too!
Taken from the BHS...
Horses are powerful animals that are easily frightened and can panic, especially near fast-moving traffic or at sudden loud noises. Accurate statistics for road accidents involving horses are not available, but the British Horse Society estimates that there are 3,000 such accidents each year, about half of which occur on minor roads.
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Location: Yorkshire, UK
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05-04-2009, 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox
I did not say I could not find any, but I did not have any to hand..
Taken from the BHS...
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Location: UK
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05-04-2009, 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by mse2ponder
That's an estimate of accidents though, not a number of deaths.
Yes, I know, but I did say
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