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Location: East Midlands, UK
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,775
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19-02-2008, 09:40 AM
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Location: East Midlands, UK
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,775
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19-02-2008, 09:43 AM
I've got to get on with some work now, as hubby is hoving into view ! I'll talk to youse later !
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,724
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19-02-2008, 09:47 AM
Originally Posted by Gnasher 
Excuse me Spot, but do you know me?
Do you know anything about me? I am sure you don't. With the greatest respect, I dislike intensely being told what i can and cannot do with my dog. I am 54 years old, 
and since the age of 14 have always had at least one dog in the house where I have been living. :
Originally Posted by Gnasher
I don't profess to be an expert in one or all breeds, but I am an unconditional dog lover ... and by lover, I don't mean irresponsible, soppy, or whatever you may wish to call it. I firmly believe that dogs needs discipline and need to know their place in the human pack in which they live ... and that is at the bottom. :
See I dont think that dogs need to be disciplined to know their place I think they need to be taught and shown and guided and my lot seem to have managed quite well with that.
Originally Posted by Gnasher
But what I will not accept is someone asking me to do something unnatural to my dog. When you adopt a child, you are not asked to neuter that child. I never have and never will condone the castration of male dogs willy nilly. As a responsible owner, I will not allow my male dog to stray and cause unwanted pups. For 10 years I owned an entire male, who for at least 5 years of those years was a stud dog. Many people would say to me "you ought to castrate that dog, he's so over-sexed". Why !!! He was behaving as any normal male of any species would behave. I would like to think that my husband would not go round sticking his head up ladies' skirts,
but that is probably only because he is so-called "civilised". I would no more want to chop off my husband's crown jewels than I would my own dog, and I am certainly not going to allow any breeder dictate to me what I can and cannot do to a dog I have paid a lot of money for !!:
but I take it from your comments you do not believe in human males having the snip - not sure what thats got to do with CM tho!
Originally Posted by Gnasher
I agree that most if not all rescue centres will neuter and castrate, that is a different matter, if the dog I adopt is already "done", then there is not a lot I can do about it. The dog I was considering adopting is entire, and were I to adopt him, he will remain so.!!:
Sorry but then thats not a responsible rescue IMO, will you be breeding from this rescue?
And in response to a previous point, again the rescues have assessed these dogs but you feel you know better than them about disciplining them?
Originally Posted by Gnasher
But were I to buy a pup from a breeder and be told that I had to neuter at the appropriate age, that is a breeder with whom I would not be dealing..!!:
Originally Posted by Gnasher
Whereas I am not vastly experienced with rescues, during my doggy lifetime I have rescued 5 dogs, so don't exactly consider myself a complete amateur either. Please don't patronise me !
If you found anything Ive said patronising I can only apologies but I do have an opinion especially on rescue and do not appreciate them being put down in all their efforts.
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Location: dogsville
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,141
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19-02-2008, 09:50 AM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn
At 16 weeks Orey was retrieving most things to hand, including food that had been dropped, toys and fur dummies, he is NOT a retiriever and has never seen a clicker!!! I do wonder Ailsa how Dogs survived without clickers if they are so wonderful, especially as I have said, years ago Dogs behaved like dogs and had nowhere near as many issues as they do today. I think things are invented to counteract the isssues people have given to dogs through anthromorphic ownership.
As for dogs not having the problems years ago that they do now...I disagree, I think we just didn't see it. Packs of dogs left to roam did fight and scuffle, we just weren't as aware of it. I also remember there were more local dogs with issues, they were hand shy and aggressive the ones that roamed...not particularly safe to be around a lot of the time.
Yes anthropomorphic dog ownership cause problems, but I don't think it causes the main problems we see in dogs today, that's still from a lack of education and 'care'.
Try a clicker Dawn...you may just like it,I stress I wouldn't use it for everything BUT it can be useful. :smt002
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,724
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19-02-2008, 09:54 AM
Originally Posted by KianaKrazy
And Oprah is never wrong can't believe I forgot to mention that just so everyone knows he helped her with her dogs and she would not bring him on her show if she didn't beleive also sorry i just wanted to say that and totally forgot
Originally Posted by mishflynn
What???? do you base your opinions on Oprah Winfrey? OMG!!!!!!!!!!!
and she says CM is god so he must be!
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Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,552
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19-02-2008, 10:22 AM
Originally Posted by Ramble
Cosmo was retrieving his toys to hand on command a couple of weeks ago, as I say, this was with keys, dogs aren't always keen to pick up a metal object. It wasn't really the activity, it was what I call when I'm teaching children a 'ping' moment, where the lightbulb flicks on and they look at you as if to say 'I get ya!!!!!' A clicker is able to mark that specific moment and therefore can be an incredibly useful training aid. I wouldn't recommend it to train everything, BUT I can now see why people that use it rave about it. Having trained dogs to do lots of things, with a lot of different methods, I can safely say I've never seen a 'ping' moment to quite that degree and intensity before. He heard the click and went 'ahhhhhhhhh get ya!' It was brilliant Dawn.
As for dogs not having the problems years ago that they do now...I disagree, I think we just didn't see it. Packs of dogs left to roam did fight and scuffle, we just weren't as aware of it. I also remember there were more local dogs with issues, they were hand shy and aggressive the ones that roamed...not particularly safe to be around a lot of the time.
Yes anthropomorphic dog ownership cause problems, but I don't think it causes the main problems we see in dogs today, that's still from a lack of education and 'care'.
Try a clicker Dawn...you may just like it,I stress I wouldn't use it for everything BUT it can be useful. :smt002
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Location: dogsville
Joined: Jan 2006
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19-02-2008, 10:24 AM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn
Ill try a clicker, if you come hunting with me. Deal?
Point taken!!!! :smt002
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Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,552
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19-02-2008, 10:30 AM
Originally Posted by Patch
Nope - and why is that ? Because the quick fix would be proved as unreliable in the long term perchance ?
Thats my point, the ones many people say are "great" do not follow up either, so why condemn CM and say his techniques work any less than others?
Oh Dawn, no, don`t start me off about Ms StillneverdoesWell
OK, at least we agree here.
Aw c`mon give me another example, not the same one again about the supposed professional with the attitude of `ooooh goodie, lets use a clicker without understanding the principle of it`
Lots of examples Patch, food guarding, barking at passers by, all manner of "unwanted behaviour" a "click fix" is not a "quick fix" (do you like that, rhymes!
) Clicking takes ages, and IMO is far too time consuming and rewards sometimes acts as bribery.Yes, sadly there are people around who have`nt a clue that dogs actually benefit from training and learning let alone how to apply it, some do think a dog should be treated as a baby-replacement almost literally, and yes those dogs often end up with problems as a result of being given no proper guidance and socialising etc - but someone stepping in to help the dog without punishing that dog for having a numpty owner does`nt mean a non-punitive trainer is `pfaffing` about it
Our faffing descriptions vary here, 15yrs in boarding kennels, sees faffers all the time. Usually, no, normally, these are the "problem" dogs that are cured with normal everyday guidance, telling a dog to do something, rather than asking if it would mind doing it.
They are not exactly `his` as pets like yours or mine, those dogs don`t live with him, they are kept at one of his Centres where he has employee`s. So who really works with those dogs day to day then, who gives them one to one training time, who tells them they`ve done something good cos he never seems to bother to say it to them...Yet still, they can live in harmony, in a large group. all breeds/types without issue. the fact they live without supervision is even more commendable in my opinion, as the minute many "pets" are left alone they start fighting!
A cherrypicker you mean - yep I hate that too, thats exactly how these self styled guru`s get their reputations though, by picking and choosing which dogs to use to make themselves look like miracle workers
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Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,552
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19-02-2008, 10:31 AM
Originally Posted by Ramble
:smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt016 :smt016 :smt016 :smt016 :smt016 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt042 :smt042 :smt044 :smt044 :smt044
Point taken!!!! :smt002
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Location: USA/UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,421
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19-02-2008, 10:41 AM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn
See, we do agree!
We are going to need video evidence of Ailsa hunting and Dawn clicking
I can not believe this thread is on page 53, it has taken me an hour to catch up, and now i have forgotten what I wanted to say
