Hi Helen ... yes you did hear a clicker !

The flattie is the first dog that I've had that I've clicker trained and I wouldnt go back. He also has the clicker word of 'great' that way if I'm at another training class (the more traditional ones) I dont have a clicker with me, but it's the same thing. When I have my usual classes with my normal trainer we all use clickers in it, and I find them great.

I used the clicker for getting the flattie into water on a blind, he wouldnt go in unless he saw the splash from something thrown. So I used to pretend to throw something in with him in a sit behind me, (this was all done on a small lake) and then tell him to get in, he'd run down and then look back at me as if I was mad.

So I introduced the clicker with him just having one paw in the water after he had run down to the edge of the water and the reward was a ball thrown over his head and into the water to encourage him to go out. After loads of sessions and making it clear he had to go in further each time he will now go in and swim about 3 metres in before looking back. I did that all with the clicker and I always have one in my satchel .... complete with whistle, treats, dummy, drinks .. snacks and other things that I find in there and go 'That's where it is'

On the water retrieve clip, he should really go in a lot quieter ... not as excited as that But I can use the clicker to get him more steady by throwing sticks in instead off dummies or balls. As sticks arent that interesting to him, but he will retrieve them. That's yet another task to get over !

I could go into to it much more about how I used the clicker for retrieving I typed out a post in teaching the retrieve in a training thread .. will see if I can find it if you interested

We went out tonight and did a walk on a nearby common that I've been doing some training on, but I didnt have my whistle on me or dummies, but I will use his ball sometimes. So we used that instead, apart from him being a bit dense on one mark, (he was sitting in front of me and I threw the ball to my right into some thick heather, he didnt mark it that well, he did a quick search then casted out onto a much wider area, god knows why he thought it was way out there, but I called him and the pig ignored me , so I walked out to where it was and picked it up, showed him and put it away) then I tried again about 20 yards down and he paid much more attention then He marked it straight away and went in really confidently.

I've found since I've gone back to a lot of basic things with him, he's slowly becoming more responsive, it's only on nights like tonight when the pig ignored me, that I think 'Back to the drawing board' but those are getting far and few between now. Thank goodness. Anyway that's the latest in this instalment

Willow x

I'm glad that my videos are working now !!

BTW J .. I'd love to hear how you get on with training with your girl If AM ever comes here she could do a training clinic for us !

Hi Willow :smt039

Its been a while for which I´m sorry
I´ll get my act together and make more videos to you soon I promise.

The water video didnt really work for me
I saw about half of it, then it said "connecting" and only the sound was left after that. I tried go back and reload but that didnt help
It would be guessing to give you advice on that. What I noticed was a very vocal you - a bit too much maybe but cant really say can I

The sec video did work and it was great
It seems to me he ran a bit too far? Might want to stop him before by telling him to search earlier? And did I heard you say "back" twice?
Eyecontact and only one command should do it

Besides from that, he is a wonderful dog. Eager to get some work done and really seems to enjoying it

Nat: will you cut it out? Theres way more competent ppl out there than me and I´m horrible with ppl so could never do classes even if i wanted to which I dont.


J: do as we´ve talked about and you´ll be fine
You can if you want to. Set your mind to it and work hard.
Maybe talk to Nat about doing exercises both of you and then you´ll have someone to train with? Even though its from a distances you still have to train or the other one will have moved on - might help? If Nat´s up for it?

Uhm well see we have a problem...

When we are out on walks, Luna couldnt care less about the dummy... I've tried to do a few retrieves.. and she just either runs the other way or passed it...

I chatted a bit to AM while we waited on the train and she suggested to do wot in danish is called "knaldapport".. U dont make the dog sit or anything, but let it run after the dummy and cheer it on.. And act like a total idiot when it comes back to you with the dummy...

Its been too hot today, and I've been too tired to try it, but we will tomoz..

I just need to ask AM, if I were to use a wooden dummy or a branch from a tree???

So hopefully I can report progress tomoz.. or atleast a reaction

Thanks for asking, Willow

She could I've told her I think we need to come to training camp there

She hasnt bought it yet though....

J

You can use what you want J As long as it isnt the dummy.
As I say to you, I think you and Luna had some sort of conflict and its better to work around that than you taking a fight with her now.

About the "knald apport" I have no idea what to call that in english, but what you do is basically forget a bit about the ob. Dont focus on her sitting before sending, care less about if she sits when returns etc.
Make it fun to retrieve and it also adds speed to the dogs that needs that.
As Luna is quite an obident dog, J will have no probs with correcting this later. Now its about getting Luna to enjoy this and avoid any more conflicts.

So, one thing at a time, make it fun and then of course remember the three T´s

Yes "Mother" I will

RIght I'll see if I can find some branches tomoz.. Just have to catch her before she lays down and chew them...

Right off to work we go... Poor Luna is knackered after her agility

Your not horrible AM well not when you dont want to be anyway
Just dont expect to be seeing any miricles when you come to see oscar, i havent done any training with him since i have been back will get onto it tomoz, as i dont wont to stop as we were getting somewhere and he loves it! well you can see for yourself when you come and advice me where im going wrong he cant wait!
Yes im up for it if J is would be great to do it together J i was really into it before i went away so we can give each other a push like i have said before what do you think?
and we could send each other vids so we can see how each other is doing and maybe give advice to each other?

Yup I think its a great idea... Just need to get Luna started on the retrieving bit.. Think I might be taking it a bit easy tomoz... After all her jumping tonight...

J

There are more and more people using the clicker to train a retrieve, that is in the working gundog world so it's getting known. I personally don't but probably would if I had a problem. All mine have been fine about retrieving so I've had no problems there. The only problems I have had are dropping the dummy too far away, and not giving it to hand but I sorted that out by backing away further and when they dropped it, popped it back in their mouth and said hold. Now, I have a spaniel who jumps up at me to give me the dummy. Not great in a trial but who cares, works for us.

Holly does the big splash in the water. Again, I have no worries about it so let her. Pippa goes in nice and slowly though.

One thing about him going out to far, in the training session you had last night and on the video. Which way was the wind blowing? Was the scent being blown to where he was running. If he didn't mark it, he could have just been going out to catch the scent of the dummy. Not sure if you will be marked down on a working test for that? I was training Pippa and threw the dummy into cover. She went out and just could not find it and kept trying to pull too far away. I knew where it was and kept stopping her but it was only when we stopped, I realised where the wind was blowing. Again, I don't know if points are knocked off for that but me personally, I want a dog that thinks for itself. Yes, works with me but has some own thoughts after all when we are picking up, they have the better nose than me. I have been wrong in the past.

Gundog training - one step forward, two steps back!

I would second Amts advice about starting retrieving. Don't put any pressure on at all. I always just throw the dummy, ball, whatever they are interested in, and let them get on with it. Once they are bringing it back ok, I then introduce the waiting whilst it is being thrown. Fun, fun, fun is the way to go.

Helen

ps. would love to see the training post you made Willow.

I third amts !! Make it loads of fun !! When the flattie was a puppy, I had him going after his ball, and anything else he would retrieve, there was no wait, and no rules. Only not jumping up at me. (He got round that by jumping up but he never jumped up on me, he’ll still do it to this day But I didnt train him to give it to me or anything like that, I was just doing the normal thing of throwing a ball for the dog !


http://www.dogweb.co.uk/talkdogs/tea...eve_14308.html


I started training a retrieve not for gundog training but for working trials so if you read my post, I started training the retrieve ‘backwards’ getting a hold first before sending him to retrieve a dummy. Only in that case it was the dumbbell. Because of teaching mine that method none of my dogs have ever spat the dummy/dumbbell/anything out of their mouth on dry land. I say dry land because when on a water retrieve, I still have to give a command to the flatcoat when he comes out. Because for 2 years we did all water retrieves with a kong on a rope that he loves and that was just thrown in for him over and over again, he never had to give it up to me, or hold onto it. On water retrieves I just give that extra ‘Hold’ as a reinforcement, when he comes out of the water, I have to be a bit more enticing when he has retrieved the dummy as he’ll go like a bat out of hell to get the dummy but when he has it and is returning he goes into ‘cruise’ mode, so I want him to quicken the return, only way I can think of doing that is by being silly I’ll stop saying it soon !

In the video , the first back you can here is me actually saying ‘Ah’ quite sharply as he was just about to break his sit, once he looked back at me, he got the go back command. That actually was supposed to be a blind but he knew something was out there. I think I would have been marked down for that had it been a mark. Last night I can’t remember where the wind was blowing. (Some trainer I am!)

Tonight I’ll do some more, but I wanted to get some advice, how often do you do your own training with them ? Every day or say several times a week ?

I dont know if you mean me or Helen or everyone here
But I thought I would answer for myself here

I actually do a bit of training everyday. Not retrieving every day, but also ob, playing that has some training in it, taking her to places that excites her like lakes etc. without letting her go in etc...

Like today. I havent been training her the last three days as I spend the weekend in BH and yesterday was just about relaxing, washing clothes, getting pics and movieclips sorted and stuff like that. So bf has taken her on normal walks these past three days. So i figured I might take it a bit easy with her today.

And I´ve just gotten back from a small walk. I live in a small town so I just put the lead on and headed for a field close by.
Heel on lead at first, then took the lead off and still heel.
Then added the stop whistle and made her stay behind til I told her to catch up with me again.
Then I made her stay and walked a bit around myself.
I told her to do what she want and then suddenly whistled a recall or a stop..

Small things that are good to repeat and that makes it fun and the trip interesting.

I took two video clips of some of the things we did. It might seem boring but to me that is training needed and what will keep my dog obedient and focused on me. The field we went to is actually right next to the local school and there was a football game going on right next to us.
A good exercise for her to block them out and pay attention to me.
The point is, you dont have to drive a long way. Lots of the training can be done on the streets, in the nearest lawn, you name it. As long as what you train is adjusted to the area theres no prob in that.
But see for yourself and feel free to comment

Stop and then follow up

Stay til I tell you to come - while I walk around and look like an idiot