Patch
I thought you sounded ok.. I have heard snippy from you.... and this was mild.. lol

Eunice

I dont believe spot works in rescue. but plans to in the future {I had asked her recently } but is a keen rescuer if that makes sense

is it right in saying that it takes five generations after an outcross for the dog to be classed as a pedigree breed again?

If so... and please correct me if im wrong.. how would someone like me.... manage to continue showing dogs when it could take me a life time to breed five generations.... {not that showings the be all and end all..

if what I have said is right.. its would be an option for the breeders breeding many litters each year..

I honestly don't know Shona...maybe Pod could tell us if she reads this. The numbers of outbred dogs in a population would correspond to degree of problems so its a bit theoretical, I guess

I think this is poss where things have gotten heated..with PW and others.. when they say outcross they mean to another breed.. hence my views on her posts.. no one minds outcrossing to diff lines within a breed....

but its outbreeding PW wants to see happening to improve health...

yes like you I see outcross as meaning.. useing a diff line of dog but still the same breed of dog..

Sorry, I should have explained when I posted that
Merle to merle is a common long known cause of deaf pups, it`s why my Collies are deaf, one is also CEA Affected, [Collie Eye Anomoly ], also an avoidable hereditary condition.

Basic easy to read general overview regarding merle here :
http://www.lethalwhites.com/doublemerle.html

I really believe that some breeds would benefit from this - some just don't have distinct lines anymore. Will look into it further, but the FCI are taking steps to allow outcrossing to similar breeds in the future to preserve diversity. I would link to it, but it seems to be written in French now!

did a long reply to all of this then it got wiped then I realised whats the point either Ihave an agenda or just rescue for some other agnda whaever I jus cant win they areare all pretty worthless really and that makes me cry so will sign off fo tonight cuz i love mu dog wherever they come from.

i do get tired of being the bad rescue bad guy not all of us are in it because we are cheap

Spot
quote:nope the breeders of both my pedigrees and numerous ones that I have fostered would not take them back - in my breed its not necessary to be a good breeder to always take them back. Still does not answer the questions though.quote.

I dont see how your breed is any different to any other breed, a good breeder in any breed would take their breeding back IMO no exception, so IMO the breeders are NOT good breeders.and I am sure even in your chosen breed there are breeders who DO take their breeding back.

Mo

I would love to find just one that would! However this is not just about one breed or us cheapskate rescuers so I will now bow out.

Anyone who thinks rescues don’t have a problem finding homes for Rotties, GSDs, Danes, Mastiffs and Collies are naive at best.

In answer to your question Shona the rescue I’ve adopted my dogs from takes in more pure breeds than crossbreeds, and Mo to answer your assumption over the last few years I’ve donated more money to the rescue than I would have paid to breeders.

Interestingly having a variety of breeds has taught me that people don't need certain types of breeds, it's a choice not a 'need', not one of my dogs lives up to the typical breed standard of what an individual breed should be, they're dogs first and foremost. Individual dogs who all fit in with my lifestyle perfectly. Two of them were bred by show breeders, two originated from what I suspect were puppy farmers and three originated from what you'd call back yard breeders.

Out of choice I only took on one dog which was considered as easy to rehome, should I feel guilty for adopting her? I suppose I agree with your point to a degree.

Please can someone point out where I have I said I dislike or have a problem with pedigree dogs? That is absolutely not true. I might disagree with breeding (pedigrees, crossbreed, mongrels) when rescues are at the crisis point of having to destroy healthy dogs but that doesn't mean, or, have I said want to get rid of pedigrees.

Yes I certainly have a problem with the way they are currently being bred under the Kennel Club rules at a detriment to their health and well being. Realising and listening to what scientists and geneticists have taught us that opening gene pools by controlled outcrossing to other breeds will improve health certainly doesn't mean I'm against pedigrees, pure bloodlines yes we know this is a detriment to their health, but that doesn't mean we have to do away with pedigrees.