Good point Rune ... my parents always drummed into me as a child that part of having a pet was always being there for them even in death. I had a have a beloved horse put down a few years ago, and although he had the lethal injection, I was there holding him - I could never have contemplated anything else, I feel it is our duty to them, our pets, who have given us their faithful love, devotion and years of pleasure that we can hold their hoof or paw when they take their last breath.

So you will breathe a HUGE sigh of relief Rune to learn that I for one will not be jumping on you regarding this issue ... see, people seemingly at odds with one another can always find something they can agree upon!!

Ah bless you Jackbox, you were there, that's lovely.

[QUOTE=tazer;2257357] I am not questioning religion, I am giving an opinion on aspects of a religion I dislike, and that would go for any religion even my own.

Questions, voicing concerns is not tantamount to racism or persecution!

Of cause I was there, my horse my responsibility.

have to say its one of the most traumatic experiences of my life, and to this day my hubby still cries about it.

P.S......... have to also say, i have no problem with those who wish NOT to be present at euthanasia , everyone has to make their own choice on what they can deal with, be that dog , cat , horse, any pet!

[QUOTE=Jackbox;2257368] She was being ironic
She was referring to when SHE was accused of persecution (by yourself, i think she is saying???) on the christianity thread when she made comments about (your???) christianity in the same vain you just commented about islam.
(the trouble with this forum, everyone is toooo pinionated to spot subtlety )

BTW, and interestingly, you state you are making comments about a "aspects of religion you dislike".
And too damn right, good for you

But,if Azz, or myself, just as examples, made comments about "aspects of a religion we dislike", say, for example, christianity, people will accuse us of religious prejudice.
Yet a christian criticising islam is not religious prejudice???
But thats all bit odd really, surely its the wrong way around?
Azz and I dont show religious prejudice, as we think they are all dumb equally
Whereas, you guys are showing biases all other the place, be it Rune with her RE in schoos bias toward C of E plus one or two 'approved major religions', Ramble and her knee jerkism about racism just because someone moans about Muslim Halal (yet doesnt say the same when chrisitinaity comes up), or Luthien harking we are a C of E country, you wouldnt want a catholic monarch!!
Sounds like a whole bunch of relgious prejudice to me!!!


.

Religion - There are those who use it for their own purposes & hide *behind it.*

Someone famous once said (haven't a clue who it was) "there are no atheists on their death beds"

One things for sure: In this life you can count on two things that will occur & will happen to each & everyone of us - no matter your creed/sect/religion etc -

You are born and You will die.....

What you do with your life inbetween is what matters.....

Fully agree with that...

I don't agree with Halal meat, but then I don't agree with the way abbatoirs kill either. I am a vegetarian, I find it very hypocrytical that people will eat meat, if they couldn't bring themselves to kill it in the first place. I couldn't kill animals to eat them, so I don't eat them - simples!
If you have to kill an animal, it should be as quick as possible, it can never be painless, but it should not be traumatic at all for that animal. IMO.

I too think that a lot of our views are similar Ramble

I have said, from my first post on this thread, that there are a lot of problems with many farming practices. I only have to look at my ex battery hens when they arrive with us to see that they have lived a very sorry state of affairs indeed.

I totally accept that for various reasons - safety (lethal injection entering people's systems), practicality, time constraints and finances etc etc, a cow is not going to be pts by a vet. That would be too crazy to even contemplate that you go into the vets and Daisy the cow, destined to become a beefburger, is in the waiting room

I have absolutely no problem with pre stunned halal meat, and I understand that the vast majority of halal meat in this country is pre stunned, unless it is intended specifically for the muslim community. So what I am struggling to get my head around, is why if a muslim would happily eat halal meat that has been pre stunned, why meat specifically destined to be eaten by a muslim is not also stunned? (although I will also accept that not all stunning works in all cases).

I haven't watched any of the video links that anyone has supplied. I watched some footage (of non halal slaughtering) many years ago and that was what made me become vegetarian the first time. The video that you are referring to, I'm not sure what has happened to the sheep as regards the stunning, whether it did not work or something else happened .

I know that non halal farming is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. As I mentioned in an earlier post, even the free range waitrose ducks recently were not experiencing the high standards of animal welfare that you would expect and hope for. I do buy Max organic free range meat and all I can do is hope that what I have chosen him did not involve another animal sufferring, either during it's life or during it's death. I just cannot see how a fully concious animal that has it's throat cut, slicing through nerves and being left to bleed to death cannot have suffered though, and that is what really troubles me.

My apologies Rune , I felt that my question was relevant, others obviously didn't.... that was probably a bit snippy of me.

Actually I purposely went a bit OT when asking Isochick about despatching chickens, which way she felt was quickest. All of our girls have been pts but I know that a lot of chicken keepers wring necks rather than throat cut so I was curious as to the reasonings.

As regards horses and ponies, we had all of our ponies pts via lethal injection. When mine was done, the vet injected him, waited a while and said that he needed another dose. She then realised that she didn't have any more with her, had to walk back across the field, drive back to the surgery and get more. My pony was unaffacted and just stood there, wondering what all of the fuss was about. For me the waiting was a dreadful experince. If I was ever in the postion to be able to have a horse again, I would consider shooting. So, also downsides to lethal injection


Blimey, hope you've got your hard hat at the ready Krusewalker

[QUOTE=Jackbox;2257368] Ah, so you don't remember then? damn, that ruined the attempt at teasing you about it. Spoil my fun why don't you.