O bless him !!

The yes's have it at the mo !!

Its a primary reinforcer and was often used with lab rats during experiments

You have to fine what works for each different animal, but I will never believe that a dog sees me as a pack leader.


No - I agree that you have to be abvle to get on with your boss....but if you did not need to work, you would be more inclined to go off and do your own thing, follow you desires rather than tying yourself down. I believe dogs are the same.

I'm sorry - I did not mean to imply that dogs 'needed' titbits...I meant dogs needed a reward.
My dogs do not need food rewards - but they need some form of reward, and I have found that toys and food bring out the best in them. If I do not have food on walks (I very rarely do) my dogs will do everything I ask, but, why should I stop something that the dog enjoys and gets the 'best' results? People often ask me how I get the Enthusiasm of my dogs when working Obedience or the dreaded HtM! Many people have difficulty with this especially with 'other' breeds.

And.....I wish I still had the rose tinted glasses - but I am off to see someone with a ex herding BC who has just bitten a jogger, sadly this is not the first case like this I will have dealt with. I think the glasses broke a long time ago

It is part of the Operant conditioning learning theory. Many people do this without thinking about it. Once the dog has learnt a command you start to reduce the reward you give. Hence moving on to a VI schedule.


Good start - I hope you manage to loose the rest without feeling so horid.

I hope you're not comparing my beloved Hal to rats, Tassle !!

"Its a primary reinforcer and was often used with lab rats during experiments "

A Love Rat maybe !! Like Hewitt !! Lol !!

I personally just do not buy into the "reward" thing, I really don't. We'll have to meet up some time and I will show you Tai, how happy he is just to please me for no better reason than because he WANTS to ! His pat on the head, or a Good Dog, is praise enough ... honest injun !!

" And.....I wish I still had the rose tinted glasses - but I am off to see someone with a ex herding BC who has just bitten a jogger, sadly this is not the first case like this I will have dealt with. I think the glasses broke a long time ago "

I'm sorry, I shouldn't laugh, but one of my pet hates are those horrid smug bloody THIN joggers, striding out on their perfectly formed muscly legs doing something that I was NEVER built for, even in my thin days (well padded on the upper half of my body if you get my drift !). Such is my jealousy, that I would positively HEAP titbits on the naughty BC and do everything I could to encourage his herding tendencies when presented with a fit jogger !!

However, joking apart, that is very bad advice, and not at all fair on the dog. Having been chased by a fair few farm collies in my time on horseback, and having had to cope with trying to control a maddened and bolting horse, it is not at all funny. I've been bitten too by more than one collie in my time, and my gosh they do nip hard.

As far as my reward system goes, I am always consistent ! The reason being goes back to Hal. Because he was always so damned disobedient, except for the last year of his life, it always came as such a lovely surprise when he was obedient !! Tai is a Hal look-alike, so when we took him on after Hal's untimely death, I nearly fainted every time with one word from me, he obeyed !! It still amazes me, and makes my chest swell with pride ! So you see, when I say I pat him on the head, I am being very economical with the truth for fear of boring everyone ! It goes something like this :

"Good boy Tai Tai, Good boy !! You are Nikki's Very Good Boy ! Oh yes you are !!" All the while the dog is being ruffled on the ears and his ribcage, something he loves. OH says I'll make the dog as daft as myself, but although Hal would never have tolerated such treatment, Tai adores it. This is his praise, his reward, he needs no more.

Should the day dawn when this isn't enough, then I will need to think again, but for now he is so happy to be with us, I think that is enough reward in itself. It has to be borne in mind too Tassle, that he is a rescue dog, not because he was being cruelly treated, not at all, but his previous owner could not give him the life he needed because he had to go out to work and Tai could not stand being left Home Alone. Now, to Tai it could be that all the reward he needs is to continue to live with us for the rest of his days being spoiled rotten, two long walks at least twice a day, regular bike rides, fantastic food and a lovely house and countryside to live in !

I'm confused - you say you do not agree with the reward thin...but implement it everytime the dog does something!

I would agree about rescue dogs.... often with that bit of insecurity in thier past. Gabehas terrible SA, I thought I had got him over it. I can leave him at home and go out with no noise/destruction/soiling (he used to destroy his previous owners house)

However - I left him with my mother for the day when I went up to a show recently. He spent the whole time bonking the Lab bitch that was here (seriously) and growling at my mother every time she asked him to do something or answered the phone. She is not intimidated by him and he does not really 'mean' it (her words not mine). Just proves that as far as I have come with him in 3 years we have not really got that far.

O sorry sorry, I've got flu for brains at the mo ! Weak from lack of food and all that !! I meant I don't agree with titbit rewards, I feel my praise is sufficient !!

I had to laugh at your poor mother being witness to live sex and growling !! It sounds like she handled it well in that she wasn't intimidated, but not sure about the not meaning it bit ! Perhaps we should look at our dogs in the reverse way we look at our kids - as long as our dogs behave with us, that's the most important ! With my daughter, I used to comfort myself that she was an angel for everyone except us (she suffers from ADHD).

If it's any comfort to you, although we never did leave Hal with anyone ever, except when he was in the vet's, it is my belief he would have been just the same. He had terrible SA all his life, but we knew that taking on a wolf cross we would have this problem, so it did not bother us one bit, we lived with it and worked round it, same as we do with Tai. None of them are perfect after all !

No, don't forget at least 4 of us voted Other but also meant No!

I wish I'd voted No now but I wasn't sure about the wording Pidge wrote so voted Other instead .

I wonder how many others did vote for Other, but also meant No to alpha stuff?

Wys
x

Now don't going spoiling it for me Wys !!

With the exception of you 4, I'm sure the Others knew what they were doing !!!

Blimey, you guys are still scrapping it out.

I haven't read the rest of the thread since I last posted in it, but I thought I'd share this anyway. I was speaking to my supervisor today (research Dr. who lectures in animal neuroscience) who said that humans were 99.8%, not 98%, related to the common chimpanzee.

My other should have been a no also


This thread has been a mine of information, thanks guys