i have to disagree with this, there are very few truly schizo springers in rescue, 99.9% weren't born like it they were made like it, by owners that took on a cute dangly eared puppy and realised at 8 months to a year that,

A) they don't train themselves
B) a quick 20 minute walk round the block twice a day is not going to cut it.
C) they are stubborn and hardheaded and forcing them into something just doesn't work

etc etc etc, i think in the 5 years i have been working with springer rescue, i have only met 2 that haven't been wired up right, the rest have been fine in a home that understands springers

Sold to the wrong homes. joint 'fault' between breeders and new owners. IMO.

rune

The fault of both working and show breeders, although in my experience the majority of dogs rehomed through the rescue I used to be heavily involved were the working strain sold to totally unsuitable homes.

I am guessing it was the breed club that wrote the standard for the Kennel Club, but hopefully the show people will be able to confirm whether that is correct or not. The BC is relatively new to the show world (I think it was recognised for show purposes in the 1970s) and the standard was written for showing purposes.

There is nothing wrong with the actual standard as far as I am aware, but the problems have arisen because the showing people have bred for what they consider to be the perfect looking border collie (black/white and rough coated), with little thought to the working ability of said dogs. Then over time, show dog has been bred to show dog, and within a few generations there are no working dogs in the pedigree at all. For a working breed like the border collie, it is a travesty!

From the ISDS website:
The Border Collie is renowned for its intelligence, agility, hard work and innate skills with animals for herding. Its skills have been shaped by many generations of breeding. These working dogs have never been bred for appearance.
Today we refer to working sheepdogs or British sheepdogs and an ISDS Border Collie has no breed standard. The U.K. is very much the 'kennel of the world' as far as the working sheepdog is concerned. It is the ISDS dogs that provided the gene pool for all the world’s herding sheepdogs whether American, Australian or mainland European.

It was 1976---I remember it well!

rune

OOPS!! Perhaps Ive been boarding and working dogs a long time and have seen it for myself. Did I say "all?" or are you once again adding things that are not said?

Probably just been stuffed up by inexperienced owners,nothing more.

Undesirable because they are not being bred for working ability. The breed standard does not ask for them to be able to move a sheep with the right amount of 'eye' - it talks about inteligence but has no way to test for it

Yes and should be a warning to everyone about inbreeding and what mans interference can do to a noble breed


totaly agree

Form FOLLOWS function
I am sure with selective breeding you could eventualy make a lab who looks like a collie - but they wouldnt be able to work like a collie

Its not a case that you breed a certain angle in a hock or whatever and the dog is able to do the job - you breed the dog to be able to do the job and the hock angles are correct
(of course assuming you are breeding for the ability to do the job long term - not just breeding from a promising pup)

The UK Kennel Club breed standard is based on the Australian breed standard & was not as far as I know written by any UK breed club, which is why the colours do not include any predominantly white markings-the Australian Show people don't like them !

There was also a move by the Australian show breeders to change the ear carriage to "tipped"(whioch most show BCs have)from erect or semi erect just because they like the look !! Semi erect ears are not the "Rough Collie"tipped ears the show dogs now have !! This move was rejected by the Australian KC !!

Yes, that's definitely true.

I guess we've just had a few in lately that have clearly had ''issues''.