Doggy issues (long, sorry)...

Jade and Nigredo had a little stair incident recently. We came out of my room, and headed down the stairs, she was in front of him... plodding down the stairs as usual. He went barreling down the stairs, and accidentally knocked her down the last few stairs.

She yelled and screamed and made a huge fuss like someone was killing her. I, of course, knowing her nature, didn't panic. She immediately ran away to hide under the table, as she always does when scared.

Went to her, checked her over, she was fine. She wasn't injured, and I'm sure it didn't hurt much. Just truly scared her, VERY easy to do. Reassured her, gave her a treat, took Nigredo and left her alone under the table to get herself together. I thought, okay no big deal.

But it was a big deal. Ever since then, she's been much more hostile towards Nigredo. She's snarls when he comes near, and if she's able... she runs to hide from him.. under a table, hunched near the couch, or in her crate.

I tried to help mend things. Made it worse... now she won't come for doggy treat time anymore because he's there, and she won't come into my room... because he's there. She struggles to come to me, even when I don't have him... because she's linking me with him - or the accident.

The other day, they were laying down in my room and he went to sniff her over her head, and she launched an attack on him out of nowhere... teeth bared, paws flailing, snarling/barking and tried her hardest to snip his ear.

She has snipped and growled at him along the way, and never has he acted like he was going to do something. But for some reason, it's like he realized his size or something this time...

He easily juked out of her bite range, as usual, and he bared his teeth and puffed up his chest ready to fight back. She flinched to the floor scared. I acted immediately to separate them. This was maybe 3 days ago or so, roughly.

They go on walks together, where they ignore each other and enjoy their walk... other than that, they are always kept in different parts of the house. At 8 months... Nigredo has not shown a shred of any form of dog aggression before that incident.

I've been separating them big time now. Not afraid of Jade hurting him, she will only offer a nip or so. Afraid of things escalating by stressing the situation. They were doing so well before this... it's totally set us back. I've never had a fearful dog before. Only Jade.

Nigredo is becoming aware of his size, and never was he afraid of Jade or her growls or anything to begin with. She's a very meek dog and isn't an "alpha" in any sort. He's been the "alpha" from day one, there wasn't anything I could do to stop this. I got him to stop barking in her face, to stop nipping at her feet, and to keep his paws off her back.

She didn't have the gusto of most adult dogs and never bothered trying to "show him his place" where he could understand. He's a very cocky guy and I can see now that he won't stand for being pushed around. I am not exactly sure what to do...

Keeping them apart is hard and this hasn't blown over yet. Any suggestions are appreciated, thanks!

Hi, he may have hurt her more than you think and if she is in pain (aches from her hips etc) she could be trying to keep him away as she thinks of him causing her pain, It stands to reason he will start getting tetchy with her if he feels she is snapping for no good reason (in his head) maybe see if she needs some painkillers from the vet, it could be muscle pain she is experiencing as you say she has trouble with her back end from time to time x

Hey Myra,agree with Zoey, if she's struggling to come to you as well,it may be that's she's hurting a bit.Think its worth having her checked out just to be sure.Be safer in the long run,if they end up going head to head,one of them will certainly get injured.Only thing I can think of and of course I could be wrong.Hope you get things sorted

Oh dear I never like to hear of dogs not getting on or having issues with each other.

I too think this is more than just Jade having a fright as they've lived together for months now. Jade is obviously more sensitive than you realise and I do remember seeing one of your videos where Brownie was bullying her. I too think she was hurt in that incident on the stairs and is fearful.

Don't forget that Nigredo if he is still 'entire' is reaching adolescence and hormones will be kicking in. Maybe he is just a little too boisterous for Jade in her old age at the moment and it would probably be advantageous for you to supervise if they are in the same room together until things have calmed down a little. I do think that a vet visit would be sensible though especially as things have suddenly changed between them ..... there must surely be a reason.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Long posts are very useful when there is a problem because more information is given, even then often there isn't enough information

Very bad manners on his part, I don't believe in going in front of our dogs but do believe in good manners, barging downstairs is very bad manners, he could knock you down the stairs and seriously hurt you, you need to teach him good manners, no barging down stairs, going through doorways and narrow passages.

I am not attacking you but are trying to see things from her point of view, she is a nervous girl who is frightened of being hurt and nobody will protect her. We have a duty of care to our dogs but sometimes we don't really see what is happening because we are to close, I am not blaming you, I often miss things as well, we are human.

Unfortunately we do make this mistake, we think we can mend things when it is best to let a dog work it out for themselves.

How many times has she warned him and it was ignored? What did you do to protect her?

He is fed up with her doing this to him so is protecting himself. It should never have got to this stage.

At 8 months old he is a teenage hooligan and like all teenagers will push he boundaries, he is just a dog behaving like a dog, in other words, if a child he would be classed as ignorant, bad mannered and a bully. This is not aggression.


They need room to work things out for themselves, I have gates up so my dogs can talk and interact with each other but not have contact unless I can watch them closely.

Forget Alpha, it makes us make the wrong decisions for our dogs, he is a puppy who had puppy licence and is now at the age when that goes. All those things, barking in her face, nipping her feet, paws on he back and many others are just a puppy learning how to be a dog but she didn't know how to teach him so he is now a bad mannered hooligan which has to stop NOW by you.

As I said earlier he is a teenage hooligan who doesn't have any manners, it has nothing to do with his place, Cyril is like this and as he was neutered too young he can't grow out of it so I have to protect my girls from him. I have had to teach him manners and obedience, stop him and bullying my girls, he is an adult dog with a puppy brain.

Do what have had to do, teach him manners and obedience, and don't allow him to bully. You are not alone with this problem, it is a mistake that many make but many of these owners don't ask for help which you have, Nigredo is a lucky boy to have you. I have just had to stop Cyril from annoying Tilly

Oh, thank you everyone. People remember how Nigredo used to bully Jade really badly. Brownie used to bully her a bit, too. I really don't get involved with my dogs unless I sense danger or like this, extreme issues.

Like I said, it was hard work getting him to stop barking in her face and being annoying to old girlie. He's always been an "in your face" doggy and I love those kinds of dogs, but Jadey doesn't.

Nigredo is neutered, Jenny and he has been before I got him at 3 months. That's why this is even more baffling. If you're able to follow my older videos and stuff, he was quite the bully and always ignored her snarls and growls.

He's really not a poorly behaved little guy, he just pushes his limits at home, knowing that Jade's growls and grunts are only a bluff. He dare not do this with larger dogs he meets in public.

I won't accept that he's poorly behaved. He comes when called always, and stops doing whatever naughty crap he's doing when I ask him to. He's a puppy, and he's a very confident puppy. Jade is very easy to bully, and he's merely taking advantage of that.

I'm trying so hard but in the end, her nature is just very timid and meek. One time she knocked a lamp onto her rear end and went running screaming, running, thinking something was trying to kill her. It was pitiful. She goes and hides and I'll always go to her, but she prefers to stay there for a bit.

I don't mind the stair barreling as I make sure he goes in front of me, I never bothered to train that out, my previous Lab mix dog Brownie did the stair barreling as well all the way to age 15.

Jade isn't limping and she's truly not in any pain. I checked her over very well, she truly wasn't hurt. She has Rimadyl for her arthritis flare ups (I HATE medicine and refuse to give it unless absolutely needed) but she's not gotten any as she's been just fine.

Gates and stuff are a good idea, though I doubt Jade would come up to a gate where Nigredo was on the other side. I have never had a real fight with Jade, as I'm pretty sure she's too scared to fight.

But I'd not like Nigredo to push her about a lot. They were getting along great, napping together and licking each other and being just grand... until now.

Like I said, this is throwing me for a loop as Jade kind of fell into my lap and I always pick out the most arrogant puppy in the litter for my own. Never had a fearful dog, and this is proving hard!!

I know she is very sensitive, and I'm really not sure why... I've always tried my best to treat her with kindness. I never strike or hit my dogs, and rarely shout at them or anything. Even our cats scare her really badly sometimes.

I grew up with the mentality that dogs can take care of problems themselves, but it's not really true in the end. I'm working it out, thanks again everyone.

I think she may well be in pain too. My other Bernese Ollie at 2 was humped by a very boisterous young great dane and Ollie screamed out. I didn't know at that time that he had issues with his neck DM and problems with his nerve endings he got hurt and he would warn that dog dog off if ever near him and the dane's owner and myself never use to let them near each other unleashed and had a chat from a comfortable distance to Ollie.
I checked him over very well and thought he was maybe being over sensitive turns out he wasn't he was in pain and that incident hurt him terribly. Jade is frightened in my opinion of Nigredo hurting her again. I feel you are not reading her or the situation very well.

I know she is scared of him knocking her down again. I've said that. I could have her looked over by a vet, I guess. She's fearful of a lot... and he did knock her down two or three stairs, and I understand why she's scared, but not exactly sure what to do. It's why I'm asking... what do you suggest I do? For now, I am keeping them apart, to make sure nobody gets hurt.

At one time we advised not to interfere with dogs but to let them sort it out themselves, I wasn't always comfortable with this and would step in then I got to know someone who followed this advice and ended up with a dog who's back was severely damaged, it cost her thousands and her dog was permanently in pain, now we are advised to step at times.

It has taken me 2.5 years to get Cyril to the stage he is now, rearly hard work and often I thought about giving up.

I did suspect he had been neutered early, he is showing all th classical signs of it in his behaviour.

I don't know anything about Nigredo, not even his breed.

That is your choice, if you want to carry on as you are instead of looking into what others have said it is your choice. Nigredo sounds just like Cyril, his recall is to dream of so is his obedience but... he is still badly behaved when it comes to my girls if I am not there to step. Nobody is perfect all the time.

It doesn't matter how hard you try, and they are lucky dogs that you do, if what you are doing doesn't suit your dog. A scary dog will always be a scary dog but sometimes we can make life easier for them, I have this with Tilly, she is frightened of people so unless she is going to see a lot of that person I keep her away. Tilly is a lot happier and more confident as she rarely goes out of her comfort zone, she was a nightmare when I moved house, she couldn't cope.

I get my dogs to wait until I tell them to barrel downstairs, I can keep the nervous dog upstairs until the others are down, my dogs are safe and my timid dog has not been put under un-necessary pressure.

I never said Jade was in pain, only you know that as you are there.

Does it matter if Jade goes up to the gate or not, what does matter is she feels safe, unless she feels safe she is not happy and I know you love and adore her and want the best for her but it does mean you need to put yourself in her place to help her feel safe.

Tilly is my fearful dog so I know how hard it is, I had to change how I thought so I could help her, I have never regretted it as she is so much happier now.

At the moment you are worried and upset, you are out of your comfort zone but by working with Jade to keep her in her comfort zone you will be able to help others with their scary dogs.

I grew up when dogs had to do as they were told, to toilet train a pup to rub their nose in it, I couldn't do that and quite a few other methods. We need to adapt to teach our dogs and not expect them to understand what we want without leading them into doing what we want.

You could have her checked by a vet and he may find the same as you do and vets did with Ollie till the problems physically showed themselves that she is not in any pain well not anymore than she usually is.
My suggestion would be to monitor the situation and not to let Nigredo play rough around or with her you may well have to step in and teach him the manners that she doesn't seem able to do. I wouldn't be letting him seem to be getting the upper hand. She is an elderly lady and in pain and needs some help.