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Patch
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09-03-2007, 10:27 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Neither do I, but the sheer amount of stories constituting attacks by these dogs proves that the severity of the attacks makes the headlines, after all, a headling of "Border Collies nips heel of child" is hardly going to make huge headlines is it? but "Pit Bull kills baby" is ever likely to.
These headlines always spring up together, there has never been a constant stream of attacks in UK by Pits.
How few incidents triggered the DDA anyway - three ? four ?
Out of how many hundreds if not thousands of dogs of the types banned being around for goodness knows how many years beforehand with not a whisper of a bite story ?

No, `Border Collie nips the heel of a child` doesnt make the news, but thats probably because many Collies which do so, [ because of human error as usual ], are destroyed by the owners for `biting` and being `dangerous` and without a police raid being involved.

If Pits had the same lighter jaws of most other breeds and so could not inflict so much damage through sheer strength they would`nt hit the headlines any more than a Yorkie biting a postmans trouser leg would.

Pits are punished because they have been bred to be powerful, [ humans *chose* to `design` these dogs lets not forget ], and are often owned by lowlifes. Neither elements are the dogs faults.

If Pits looked like Poodles you can bet they would not get the hysterical media hype in the event of a rare attack - just something to consider in terms of appearance triggering instant fear reaction.
Can anyone imagine the Sun being so ready to blast an entire breed/type of dog as Demons with a photo of a cute looking dog with a curly topknot held by a pink ribbon and an Elvis Presley type `snarl` expression for instance....
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muttzrule
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09-03-2007, 11:01 PM
I think Humans are more dangerous to pitbulls than pitbulls are to humans, to be honest.
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Hayley SBT
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09-03-2007, 11:05 PM
Thanks to Sal who sent me this link, i think for those who believe a Pit Bull is more dangerous then they need to read this, with an open mind.

http://www.nationalcanineresearchcou...statistics.asp

Im gonna break this down, this is Only in the USA, But we are talking about American Pit Bull terriers Dogs here which are banned (sadly) In the UK and very common in the USA

1995
Jan. (1) Wolf dog SD Chained dog
Jan. (1) Sib. Husky AK Chained dog
Apr. (1) Mixed breed KS Chained dog
Apr. (1) Mixed CO Grandmother's dog
May (?) Mixed PA Neighbor's loose dogs
May (1) Rottweiler FL Chained dog
Jun. (3) German Shep CA Guard dogs
Jul. (1) Pit-bull-type CA Unsupervised child
Sept. (1) Chow Chow PA Infant death
Sept. (6) Pit-bull-type SD Loose roaming dogs
Oct. (3) Rottweilers NC Loose roaming dogs
Oct. (2) Pit Bulls WA Loose roaming dogs
Nov. (1) Rottweiler CT Uncle's dog

In 1995
2 Fatal Attacks by an American Pit Bull Terriers
5 Fatal Attacks by Rottweilers
1 Fatal Attack by a Chow Chow
11 Fatal Attacks by Mixed breeds, 7 of which had Pit Bull blood
3 Fatal Attack by A GSD
1 Fatal Attack by a a Siberian Husky


So in 1995 2 Pure Breed American Pit Bull Terrier caused Fatal attacks, Where as Rotties cased 5 fatal attacks and 10 Mixed breed types cause Fatal attacks with 7 of the Mixed Breeds having American Pit Bull Blood in it!
So that year the pure breed dog that cause the most Fatal attacks was a Rottie


1996
Feb. (2) Rott & GSD FL Unsupervised child
Mar. (1) Sib. Husky PA Infant death
Mar. (2) Rottweilers TN Loose neighbor's dogs
Mar. (1) Rottweiler CA Infant death
Apr. (1) Mixed TX Dog attacked owner
May (6) Chow Xs AR Neighbor's loose dogs
Jun. (1) Wolf dog AZ 1-day-old infant left w/dog
Jun. (2) Rottweilers CA Children teasing dogs
Jun. (1) Rottweiler MA Chained dog
Jul. (1) Rottweiler MO Chained dog
Jul. (1) Husky-type AK Unsupervised child
Aug. (1) Husky-type AK Chained dog
Oct. (2) Great Danes AR Feeding neighbor's dogs
Nov. (6) Rottweilers FL Loose roaming dogs
Nov. (2) Husky & Chow OH Chained dogs
Dec. (2) Wolf dogs CO Putting dogs in pen
Dec. (3) Pit-bull-type NY Grandson's dogs


13 Fatal attacks by Rottweilers's
1 Fatal attack by a Great dane
1 Fatal attack by a Siberian Husky
19 Fatal attacks by Mixed breeds, with 3 of those dogs have Pitbull blood in them.

So in 1996 Rotties caused 13 Fatal dog attacks and 19!!! Fatal attacks where by mixed breeds.


1997

Jan. (1) Rottweiler CA Unsupervised child
Jan. (1) Doberman KS Grandparent's guard dog
Mar. (1) Sib. Husky WI Infant death
Mar. (1) Labrador X SD Chained dog
Apr. (1) Rottweiler NC Grandfather's guard dog
Apr. (3) Rottweilers KS Loose roaming dogs
Apr. (2) Pit-bull-type MO Unsupervised child
May (1) West Highland MA Attacked elderly woman
Jun. (1) Sled dog AK Chained dog
Jun. (1) St. Bernard WI Unsupervised child
Jun. (1) Mixed breed GA Attacked elderly owner
Jun. (1) Rottweiler CA Elderly woman entered yard w/dog
Jul. (1) Pit bull NY Trying to protect his dog
Jul. (1) Mixed CA Aunt's dog
Aug. (1) Pit-bull-type FL Boy running from dog
Sept. (1) Rottweiler CA Aunt's dog
Oct. (3) GrDn & Mixed TX Loose roaming dogs
Oct. (2) Pit-bull-type TX Feeding nephew's dogs
Dec. (4) Rotts & Lab AL Unsupervised child
Dec. (2) Rottweilers GA Unsupervised child

9 Fatal attacks by Rottweilers
14 Fatal attacks by Mixed Breeds, 5 of which has American Pit Bull Terrier blood in them.
1 Fatal attack by an American Pit Bull Terrier
1 Fatal attack by a west highland Terrier
1 Fatal Attack by a Saint Bernard
1 Fatal Attack By A Sib. Husky
1 Fatal Attack by A Doberman
1 Fatal Attack by a Sled Dog

So in 1997 14 mixed breed dogs cause the Fatal attackls, 9 Rotties and we even see a Westie causing a fatal attack


1998

1998
Jan. (3) Pit-bull-type NC Neighbor's loose dogs
Jan. (1) St. Bernard KY Unsupervised child
Mar. (1) Rottweiler TN Chained dog
Jun. (1) Mixed CO Family dog
Sept. (2) Rottweilers CA Trained attack dogs
Sept. (3) Mastiff & Sbt NC Climbed into dogs' yard
Sept. (2) Pit bulls MI Attacked neighor - owner in prison
Oct. (1) Rottweiler GA Guard dog
Oct. (1) Rottweiler AR Grandmother's dog

7 Fatal attack Mixed Breeds, 3 of which have pit bull blood
2 Fatal attacks by American Pit bull terrier
4 Fatal attacks by Rotties
1 Fatal attack by a Saint Bernard

So in 1998 7 Mixed breeds caused the most fatal attacks


1999

Jan. (1) Rottweiler IL Unsupervised child
Feb. (1) Chow X OR Chained dog
Feb. (2) Mix breeds WI Newly acquired dogs
Feb. (2) Mix breeds MT Uncle's dogs
Feb. (1) Pit-bull-type CA Unsupervised child w/guard dog
Feb. (1) Pit-bull-type GA Highly aggressive due to owner
Mar. (1) Airedale Terr KS Infant death
Mar. (?) Stray dogs OK Loose roaming dogs
Apr. (1) Husky NC Chained dog
May (1) Sled dog AK Chained dog
Jun. (1) Briard WA Daughter's dog
Jun. (1) Mixed CA Babysitter's dog
Jul. (4) Pit bulls FL Newly acquired dogs
Aug. (1) SharPei/Chow X TX Chained dog
Aug. (1) Rottweiler WI Newly acquired dog
Aug. (1) Bulldog X TN Chained dog
Aug. (1) Wolf dog MI Child playing in yard
Sept. (2) Rottweilers LA Father's dogs
Oct. (10) Mixed KY Unsupervised child
Oct. (1) Gr. Shep X CA Infant death
Oct. (1) Gr.Shepherd ME Child tripped on sleeping dog
Oct. (2) Chow & Dachs MD Infant in baby swing
Oct. (1) Rottweiler AR Chained dog
Nov. (2) Mixed AZ Loose roaming dogs
Dec. (2) Pit bulls SC Loose roaming dogs

27 Fatal attacks by Mixed Breeds, 2 of which had pitbull blood
4 Fatal attacks by Rotties
1 Fatal attack by Airdale Terrier
1 Fatal attack by a GSD
1 Fatal attack by a Husky
6 fatal attacks by pit bulls

So in 1999 mixed breeds caused the most fatal attacks.


So From 1995-1999 there where 161 fatal dog attacks, from which 11 american pitbull terriers (pure bred) caused some of the Fatal attacks, 20 fatal attacks where by Mixed breeds with pitbull blood in them.

So from this all i can gather is this shows no dog is more dangerous than any other breed.
In 5 years, 11 american pit bull terriers in America where they are most common have caused 11 of the 161 Fatal attacks.


If my maths are wrong then forgive me as its late, i dont have a calculator and this took me forever
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Meg
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09-03-2007, 11:12 PM
Originally Posted by SBT View Post
American temperament test see how well the 542 American Pit Bulls did, see how well your chosen breed did.
http://www.atts.org/statistics.html

Test Description
http://www.atts.org/testdesc.html
SBT the Atts test statistics have no relevance at all as far as I am concerned, how can you make a comparison when the number of dogs tested varies from 1 to over 1000 in any one particular breed.

Take just one breed Sealyham Terriers, they tested just one dog and from this they deduced the bred was 100% reliable. If you wish to do a comparable study on breed temperaments you need to test a similar number of dogs from each breed.
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Hayley SBT
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09-03-2007, 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
If you wish to do a comparable study on breed temperaments you need to test a similar number of dogs from each breed.
This i do agree with minihaha
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Meg
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09-03-2007, 11:35 PM
Hayley I think the statistics you have posted have little relevance, they are produced by an organisation calling itself The National Canine Research Council and they are dedicated to promoting PBT, just look at the links page.

They cannot be compared with official fatality statistics produced by The Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) which is an agency of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
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Sal
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09-03-2007, 11:39 PM
I have found a couple of Quotes from a website,while researching bite stats.

Question:
Don't Pitbulls bite harder and somehow different to other breeds?
Answer:
“Statements concerning pit bulls ‘chewing’ with their molars while holding with their canine teeth and other statements which have pit bulls biting differently or more powerfully than other breeds have been made by people very unfamiliar with how a dog’s jaw structure works. After 30 years as a canine aggression expert, schutzhund trial decoy, expert witness on dog bites for the Seattle and Tacoma police departments, I concur with the conclusions reached by Dr. Brady Barr working with the National Geographic Society’s bite study which showed the pit bull’s bite to be unremarkable when compared to other breeds.” Diane Jessup, international speaker on canine aggression.

Question:
Don't friendly well adjusted just snap and attack sometimes?
Answer:"In reviewing and studying over 448 cases of fatal dog attacks in the United States, it is apparent that the three most critical factors that contribute to a fatal dog attack are: function of the dog, owner responsibility and reproductive status of the dog. There is no documented case where a single, neutered, household pit bull was the cause of a human fatality.”
Karen Delise, Author of Fatal Dog Attacks
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Meganrose
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09-03-2007, 11:52 PM
Originally Posted by Sal View Post
There is no documented case where a single, neutered, household pit bull was the cause of a human fatality.”
Karen Delise, Author of Fatal Dog Attacks
I take your points..I think we all do however, I doubt if it makes much difference to the fatalities that have occurred via pit bulls (see offical stats posted by Mini earlier) as to whether the dogs were entire or not, and as any pitbulls still in existence in the UK should be neutured anyway we shouldn't have had any attacks then should we?
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Sal
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10-03-2007, 12:08 AM
Originally Posted by Meganrose View Post
Sal I don't know who these authors are perhaps you could reference them

I take your points..I think we all do however, I doubt if it makes much difference to the fatalities that have occurred via pit bulls (see offical stats posted by Mini earlier) as to whether the dogs were entire or not, and as any pitbulls still in existence in the UK should be neutured anyway we shouldn't have had any attacks then should we?
The stats that Mini posted i read but again i find these unreliable,to be honest there is lots of info on stats out there,and hardly any give the same figures,or info.

We know if there are any pits in the uk that they should be neutered and not bred from,but i wonder how many actually are,the idiots for owners that own them illegally are hardly going to think about been responsible and neuter them are they?
When a dog attacks,we don't do any research into what may have caused the dog to attack,what it's background was,whether or not it was neutered etc......in the uk our policy is Kill asap.
How many of us have had children approach our dogs and try and give it a cuddle without asking?
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Meg
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10-03-2007, 12:37 AM
Originally Posted by Sal View Post
The stats that Mini posted i read but again i find these unreliable,to be honest there is lots of info on stats out there,and hardly any give the same figures,or info.
Are you saying the statistics published on a site promoting PBT and selling goods are more reliable than the official statistics produced by The Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) which is an agency of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.


On the site you have posted go to the bottom of the page marked References / Resource Material and click on the source material for the statistics at the bottom of the page and you will se this...
http://www.fataldogattacks.com/purchase.html
http://www.fataldogattacks.com/

it is another a site by the same person mentioned above Karen Delise who is a 'veterinary technician' (not even a vet) promoting PBTs and her book on the subject, hardly a reliable source compared with the CDC

also look here by the same person..http://www.fataldogattacks.com/statistics.html

Breeds Involved
Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%), Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%), German Shepherd Dogs (9%), Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%), Malamutes (4%), Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%), Chow Chows (3%), Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).
she is actually saying herself on this site that the highest proportion of fatalities can be attributable to PBT, she has cleverly attributed some of the other attacks to mixed breeds rather than PBT crosses to reduce the overall numbers slightly .

Also when one takes into account the statistics quoted from your site by Hayley are only for 1995-1999 and not for the longer period of 1979-1998 unlike the official statistics they say pretty much the same..
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