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ClaireandDaisy
Dogsey Veteran
ClaireandDaisy is offline  
Location: Essex, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,147
Female 
 
08-08-2012, 11:15 AM
Why not look at it a different way?
You are currently retraining your dog. As part of the training programme you need to prevent any unwanted behaviour and encourage good behaviour.
In order to do this you are using various tools - a line, a muzzle, a reward etc.
As the dog progresses you will meet different goals and challenges so will change your approach.
Atm I assume you are working on Recall plus socialisation?
I find if you make this training part of a bid to change behaviour rather than a forced necessity, it all gets a lot more positive.
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Baxter8
Dogsey Senior
Baxter8 is offline  
Location: Somerset UK
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 969
Female 
 
08-08-2012, 11:50 AM
Thanks very much for all your kind observations. I'm thinking of setting up some agility apparatus in my garden - does anybody have any ideas? Can somebody tell me what "tracking" is. I think he is very much a seeing/hearing dog, he enters fields and scans the horizon and reacts to sounds - useless at sniffing, so if tracking has anything to do with scenting things I suspect he might not be too clever. He loves being off lead and is a real explorer but his bolting (actually more than his aggression - which mostly happens in close proximity, he doesn't seem to go looking for trouble - yet anyway) is going to get him into trouble and danger so that's why I keep him on a lead.
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Baxter8
Dogsey Senior
Baxter8 is offline  
Location: Somerset UK
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 969
Female 
 
08-08-2012, 11:53 AM
I've tried and tried and the bolting behaviour seems to be hard-wired into his DNA. He has impeccable recall in training sessions and when we're out together except when he gets the "bolt" look and there hasn't been anything I can do - he will chase squirrels, rabbits etc.. the final straw is when he jumped into a lake and chased (well very slowly as he's a clumsy swimmer) 2 swans and a cygnet around the lake for about 15 minutes, they didn't seem overly bothered as they just gracefully swum away all the time. I got really worried as he was panting so much.


Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
Why not look at it a different way?
You are currently retraining your dog. As part of the training programme you need to prevent any unwanted behaviour and encourage good behaviour.
In order to do this you are using various tools - a line, a muzzle, a reward etc.
As the dog progresses you will meet different goals and challenges so will change your approach.
Atm I assume you are working on Recall plus socialisation?
I find if you make this training part of a bid to change behaviour rather than a forced necessity, it all gets a lot more positive.
Reply With Quote
Baxter8
Dogsey Senior
Baxter8 is offline  
Location: Somerset UK
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 969
Female 
 
08-08-2012, 11:58 AM
Have just re-read what you say - yes I understand now. Do you think with appropriate reward based "training/entertainment" on a long lead I can eventually train him to want to stay with me rather than bolting?

Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
Why not look at it a different way?
You are currently retraining your dog. As part of the training programme you need to prevent any unwanted behaviour and encourage good behaviour.
In order to do this you are using various tools - a line, a muzzle, a reward etc.
As the dog progresses you will meet different goals and challenges so will change your approach.
Atm I assume you are working on Recall plus socialisation?
I find if you make this training part of a bid to change behaviour rather than a forced necessity, it all gets a lot more positive.
Reply With Quote
smokeybear
Dogsey Veteran
smokeybear is offline  
Location: Wiltshire UK
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,404
Female 
 
08-08-2012, 11:58 AM
Have you considered going on a recall course with your dog?

Have you read Clarissa or David's books?

Both of which deal with predatory chasing.


Ultimate Recall: 4 Day Course with John Rogerson
• Training a reliable, automatic, non-negotiable, reality recall
• Building block and foundation training of the recall
• Relationship/influence building in recall training
• The chasing/emergency recall
• Sit and/or down on recall
• Freeze/stop on recall/running wait
• Distance/direction control
• Calling dogs off of distractions
• Out of sight recall (owner hidden)
• Obedience/competition recall (dog is called from a stationary position)
• Free running recall (dog is called while in motion)
• Type "A" recall (dog re-joins his owner in motion)

JOHN RESERVES THE RIGHT TO ADJUST COURSE CONTENT BASED ON THE ABILITIES OF DOGS AND HANDLERS ENROLLED ON THE COURSE.

Dates for Ultimate Recall Course:

At Nottingham, England
26th – 29th October, 2012; 4 days duration 9.30-4.00 pm (Note: New Date!)
To register contact Beverly Smith at bev@inlinedogtraining.co.uk

http://www.johnrogerson.com/2012coursesschedule.pdf

Chase Recall Masterclass

Date: Thursday 1st November 2012 Venue: Windsor, Berkshire Max handler places: 10
9.30am registration, 10.00am - 4pm Refreshments and a light lunch included

Following on from the fabulous Chase Recall Masterclass with Stella Bagshaw earlier this month, we are pleased to announce a date for the Chase Recall Practical Masterclass.

In this Masterclass we will be exploring:
How to tailor your training depending on your dog's scorpion level
How to build your training based on practical, workable exercises
How to move from one training level to the next in the real world
Perfecting the advanced "leave"
How, when and what signals to use
Line handling skills that make all the difference
Getting scent to work for you
Games to play with your dog on line
Dogs attending do not need to have a chase/recall issue, but it's a perfect opportunity if they do! Dogs do need
to be social with people and other dogs.

Please be assured that even if you don't bring a dog you will learn just as much from Stella's unique and innovative training approaches. Please note, the venue has a large hall and outside areas – we will be training in both, so please bring suitable outdoor wear.

Non handler place @ £130 (deposit £65)
Handler @ £145 (deposit £65)

http://www.apdt.co.uk/documents/Chas...calNov2012.pdf


Books

Stop! How to control predatory Chasing in Dogs
by David Ryan

Chase! Managing Your Dog's Predatory Instincts
By Clarissa Von Reinhardt

DVD

REALLY RELIABLE RECALL
by Leslie Nelson

Website articles:


http://www.apdt.co.uk/documents/RECALL.pdf

http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/reliable_recall.pdf

http://www.clickerdogs.com/perfectrecall.htm

http://www.clickerdogs.com/listofreinforcers.htm

http://www.clickerdogs.com/distracti...yourrecall.htm

http://www.clickerdogs.com/createamotivatingtoy.htm

http://www.cleverdogcompany.com/tl_f...e%20recall.pdf

http://ahimsadogtraining.com/blog/teaching-come/

http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/how-do-...y-dog-chasing/
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Baxter8
Dogsey Senior
Baxter8 is offline  
Location: Somerset UK
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 969
Female 
 
08-08-2012, 12:02 PM
I'd love to go on this course but presently just cannot afford it and currently my work pattern just doesn't allow for it. I did email the co-ordinator and she said the course might be running in Somerset in the future.

I will get the books you suggest - do you have titles?



Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
Have you considered going on a recall course with your dog?

Have you read Clarissa or David's books?

Both of which deal with predatory chasing.


Ultimate Recall: 4 Day Course with John Rogerson
• Training a reliable, automatic, non-negotiable, reality recall
• Building block and foundation training of the recall
• Relationship/influence building in recall training
• The chasing/emergency recall
• Sit and/or down on recall
• Freeze/stop on recall/running wait
• Distance/direction control
• Calling dogs off of distractions
• Out of sight recall (owner hidden)
• Obedience/competition recall (dog is called from a stationary position)
• Free running recall (dog is called while in motion)
• Type "A" recall (dog re-joins his owner in motion)

JOHN RESERVES THE RIGHT TO ADJUST COURSE CONTENT BASED ON THE ABILITIES OF DOGS AND HANDLERS ENROLLED ON THE COURSE.

Dates for Ultimate Recall Course:

At Nottingham, England
26th – 29th October, 2012; 4 days duration 9.30-4.00 pm (Note: New Date!)
To register contact Beverly Smith at bev@inlinedogtraining.co.uk

http://www.johnrogerson.com/2012coursesschedule.pdf

Chase Recall Masterclass

Date: Thursday 1st November 2012 Venue: Windsor, Berkshire Max handler places: 10
9.30am registration, 10.00am - 4pm Refreshments and a light lunch included

Following on from the fabulous Chase Recall Masterclass with Stella Bagshaw earlier this month, we are pleased to announce a date for the Chase Recall Practical Masterclass.

In this Masterclass we will be exploring:
How to tailor your training depending on your dog's scorpion level
How to build your training based on practical, workable exercises
How to move from one training level to the next in the real world
Perfecting the advanced "leave"
How, when and what signals to use
Line handling skills that make all the difference
Getting scent to work for you
Games to play with your dog on line
Dogs attending do not need to have a chase/recall issue, but it's a perfect opportunity if they do! Dogs do need
to be social with people and other dogs.

Please be assured that even if you don't bring a dog you will learn just as much from Stella's unique and innovative training approaches. Please note, the venue has a large hall and outside areas – we will be training in both, so please bring suitable outdoor wear.

Non handler place @ £130 (deposit £65)
Handler @ £145 (deposit £65)

http://www.apdt.co.uk/documents/Chas...calNov2012.pdf


Books

Stop! How to control predatory Chasing in Dogs
by David Ryan

Chase! Managing Your Dog's Predatory Instincts
By Clarissa Von Reinhardt

DVD

REALLY RELIABLE RECALL
by Leslie Nelson

Website articles:


http://www.apdt.co.uk/documents/RECALL.pdf

http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/reliable_recall.pdf

http://www.clickerdogs.com/perfectrecall.htm

http://www.clickerdogs.com/listofreinforcers.htm

http://www.clickerdogs.com/distracti...yourrecall.htm

http://www.clickerdogs.com/createamotivatingtoy.htm

http://www.cleverdogcompany.com/tl_f...e%20recall.pdf

http://ahimsadogtraining.com/blog/teaching-come/

http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/how-do-...y-dog-chasing/
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smokeybear
Dogsey Veteran
smokeybear is offline  
Location: Wiltshire UK
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,404
Female 
 
08-08-2012, 12:03 PM
Originally Posted by Baxter8 View Post
I will get the books you suggest - do you have titles?
Books

Stop! How to control predatory Chasing in Dogs
by David Ryan

Chase! Managing Your Dog's Predatory Instincts
By Clarissa Von Reinhardt
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Kerriebaby
Dogsey Veteran
Kerriebaby is offline  
Location: in a pile of nappies
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,945
Female 
 
08-08-2012, 01:43 PM
FWIW. I have a DA dog, she cannot be trusted off lead with any dog smaller than a border collie, and despite having an ok recall, will never ever be safe off lead.

The only time she comes off her lead, is when we are 1-2-1, in a totally safe environment (for her and other dogs)

Look at it this way, you could let your dog off lead, and allow him to aggress further, or you could be the responsible owner who keeps the dog safe!
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Baxter8
Dogsey Senior
Baxter8 is offline  
Location: Somerset UK
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 969
Female 
 
08-08-2012, 01:49 PM
I agree and as someone pointed out (on here) the more chances he has to be aggressive the more practiced he becomes. I avoid dogs now. Even if it looks all good and dandy - it can so easily lead to tears, he is such a bully-boy playful dog too.

The bolting is another major worry and one I just cannot seem to get under control - I think he's discovered now that there are no consequences but plenty of rewards for charging off chasing a real or imaginary prey.

such a shame because he is a joy to watch off lead - such a curious lad.



Originally Posted by Kerriebaby View Post
FWIW. I have a DA dog, she cannot be trusted off lead with any dog smaller than a border collie, and despite having an ok recall, will never ever be safe off lead.

The only time she comes off her lead, is when we are 1-2-1, in a totally safe environment (for her and other dogs)

Look at it this way, you could let your dog off lead, and allow him to aggress further, or you could be the responsible owner who keeps the dog safe!
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Kerriebaby
Dogsey Veteran
Kerriebaby is offline  
Location: in a pile of nappies
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,945
Female 
 
08-08-2012, 01:50 PM
Originally Posted by Baxter8 View Post
I agree and as someone pointed out (on here) the more chances he has to be aggressive the more practiced he becomes. I avoid dogs now. Even if it looks all good and dandy - it can so easily lead to tears, he is such a bully-boy playful dog too.

The bolting is another major worry and one I just cannot seem to get under control - I think he's discovered now that there are no consequences but plenty of rewards for charging off chasing a real or imaginary prey.

such a shame because he is a joy to watch off lead - such a curious lad.

I do allow K to have time on the long line, but I have to watch her like a hawk. She was chief bog off dog for a long long time
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