Guilt

I think the general consensus now is that dogs do not exhibit or feel guilt, and that it is US putting our own emotions (wrongly) on their behaviour?

I have just been outside, and heard Jake "cleaning" the cat dish. I didn't go back in until he had left the kitchen.

When I walked into the kitchen, both dogs appeared at the door. I picked up the cat dish and tutted. Jake slunk off, and Simon came plodding in to see if there was any food going.

I didn't give eye contact with either dog, as I wanted to know what they would do.

I'm not saying Jake felt guilty, but he obviously knew he'd done something wrong.

Yes they do know when they do something that we have previously shown we disapprove of. It is learnt from having done it before and being admonished though rather than guilt.

Our better behaved dogs look 'uncomfortable' if one of the naughty dogs is doing something they are not allowed. I'd go as far as to say they tell tales

To feel guilt, one must be able to distinguish right from wrong. Do dogs understand that concept?

What the dog may have been exhibiting was unease as response to your displeasure rather than guilt.

No, they don't - and can't.

I don't know, Luthien, if you have ever read "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson? This definitive book really does define exactly what we, as humans 'expect' and 'think' of our dogs, versus what dogs really are, and can and are able do.

One thing from the book has always stuck in my mind. Dogs do NOT know Right and Wrong... but they do know Safe and Dangerous. That knocks out Guilt from the start, because in our human terms, guilt can only arise from the knowledge that something wrong has been done.

When your dog cleaned the cat dish, he did so knowing at that moment, it was safe to do so. Presumably, if he has tried to do this in the past while you were there, he was told not to.

So there is a link...

* Look at/go towards/lick cat dish = dangerous when human is there.

* Look at/go to/ lick cat dish when human is there = safe.

*Cat dish is a sometimes dangerous place to go.

* Lick cat dish when human is not there, then human comes in and sees you doing it, or shortly after = dangerous. Human may get cross, same as when you want to lick cat dish and human is there.

No guilt at all - just expectation of a reprimand, the dog associates the cat dish with a telling off whether you are there or not, and picking up that dish is making it a feature, a 'cue' of an unsafe situation.

If you have never EVER given your dog any reason to think licking that dish is not allowed [=unsafe] then you will never get any kind of "guilt" reaction because the dog feels it is normal and safe, and has no reason at all to be wary of your reactions.

Sorry it's late and I may not have expressed that as well as I could...

The gist is - Stop thinking Right vs Wrong.
Start thinking good vs bad, Okay vs Not OK, Safe vs Unsafe, Cool vs Uncool etc etc and then you are right inside your dog's head

I agree, dogs don't do guilt. They do do associations and that sort of thing.

I suspect that if you picked up the cat dish from outside and then tutted, he would look "guilty" even if he'd not touched it earlier

Possibly even the very action of you going to pick it up in a certain way, holding it a certain way, your intake of breath, etc can affect his behaviour too

The Culture Clash does explain it very well.

Wys
x

I agree that they don't feel 'guilt' as such and that they just show 'fear' or are 'worried' due to your actions and past experience and their personality.
For example, my parents adopted a black lab. While I was staying at my parents while they were away both dogs were left unsupervised while I went out for an hour. When I came back one of them had had a rather runny accident on the floor. My parents dog nearly jumped in it while being so excited to see us. My dog stood at the top of the stairs, head hung low, ears back, tail under, looking rather worried. We didn't say anything but when we took the dogs out turned out my parents dog had the runs and mine didn't. (They had changed his food a bit too quickly).
My dog knows from past experience when he goes to the toilet in my parents house my parents start shouting at him (as we lived them when he was a pup). He doesn't associate going with being told off, just mess being there and being told off.

The problem with using human words for emotions / reactions is because of the baggage that comes with them.
So Guilt implies a moral code - which is a human concept.
Jealousy implies exclusive relationships. Or worse.
I try to avoid the words.

I've never really thought of this before this thread but thank you for starting it and the ensuing conversation. Its interesting and so refreshing to read people's points of view without anyone berating anyone else for having a slightly different take on things. Keep these coming! By
the way, one of my dogs is looking at me 'guiltily' and there is an empty crisp packet on the floor......the 'guilty' party is the teenager upstairs playing loud music!!!...now he knows the meaning of 'guilty'.....OI! Turn that music down and get down here now before the dog goes into sensitive melt down!!!