Right, there is a big hidden agenda here

That would mean you have to be with the dog 24 hours a day, the entire Southern California area is a high risk area, every time they build new homes they send snakes out to places they wouldnt normally be, there are hundreds of thousands of people living in the desert areas....snakes have got into peoples houses, into garages, under cars, being under the house is not uncommon. Your not talking about brick houses with foundations a couple of feet down and a small walled yard area, your talking about log cabins up in the mountains, houses out in the desert with anywhere from 2 -10 acres lots surrounding them.
The only ways around it is to use something that stops the snakes coming onto the property....as I said, the only thing to my knowledge available (that works) is not legal in California....or snake aversion. Its easy enough to stop a dog approaching a snake if your there and you know the snake is there.....dogs on leashes have been bitten, all it takes is to stick their nose in a small bush or close to a rock.....Mojave Greens dont always rattle either (and there the ones more likely to result in death for a dog) so you dont have time to react.

I've just had a quick read of this thread again before I go to bed and I really don't believe the original poster is anyone other than Denis himself - either that or the "owner" has been so indoctrinated that they speak and think as he does.

No owner would come onto a public forum, and speak about various organisations in this exact way and in the particular way that has been done here. Almost all the first original post is "Denis Carthy/Clob" and his views on positive training and APDT.

Also very strange that the APDT trainers (of whom there were 2 I believe originally) were conveniently altered to became members of the FDTCB

This in spite of the original poster seeming sure it was APDT - that is so highly suspicious Dr Watson could deal with it on his own without Holmes I think

Oh one last thing - it seems the title of this thread is a total misnomer - the Westie (if he exists ) didn't receive any positive only training if the poor thing was subjected to what was described!

Many people 'know' about them Denis - yes, even the 'modern' ones, but they don't all agree with your point of view

Agree with you Brierley - not supporting them doesn't mean others are ignorant of them. It just means they don't agree with this sort of "training".

ERaz
As I have stated numerous times, we are still open to discussion about the use of e-collars as a last resort treatment.

Denis
The fact is ( I mean the real facts) there is not only so much controversy growing over the number of dogs and families seriously damaged by people calling themselves ‘Positive Trainers’ Behaviourists and a whole load of similar terms, regardless of what organisations they belong to.

It is pet owners themselves who are now realising the damage which ‘positive trainers’ have caused to their dogs, anyone standing back can see that. As far as e-collars goes the original poster and myself have any knowledge of any kind of them and anyone reading this can see that many posts are attempting to cover not only the fact that this dog was damaged for nine months its life and that of its owners were nothing less than a misery, the result of everyone calls positive training, worst still, this dogs life nearly came to a premature end because of so called positive training.

These cases are coming to light all over the UK and all over these boards, my client is one who has spoken out about it, most stay as the silent majority, but, as you know full well, many will identify with her experience and many will act on it, ALL will have observed and absorbed the unbelievable notions from some members here that this dog should have been killed (PTS as its misleadingly called) and the reasons for that is the fact that positive trainers try hiding all the problems they cause to dogs and suggesting such things, thankfully, this post has now highlighted that fact very vividly and so called positive training is deep *^## these days, as are/were the dogs such as this which have been badly damaged by it and thir human owners.


As far as e-collars go, the only two people on here who know anything at all about e-collars is the original poster and me, but for the record, here are the manufacturers instructions, as opposed to the made up hysterical stuff by several on here, sure if anyone things a tug on the lead is cruel so be it.

After setting your collar intensity at its lowest possible level, wait until your dog is not paying attention to you or to anything else. Then press the lowest possible continuous stimulation button. Watch the dog's expression. You want to see him cock his ears, or quickly move his head. He may have a quizzical expression on his face.

This tells you that the dog has felt the stimulation but is not overwhelmed by it. If you see no reaction at all in the dog, increase the intensity by one level and repeat the test. Work your way up through the different intensities until you find the one that makes your dog react as described.

When you test your dog's physical sensitivity to stimulation, he should not be distracted by anything and you should not give him any command when you press the button. If he is distracted or trying to obey a command, you won't be able to accurately "read" his reactions to the mild stimulation.

OVERVIEW

Dogtra training collars give you the ability to communicate with your dog in a timely manner even when the dog is far away from you. This makes it much easier for the dog to learn its lessons because late corrections are very confusing to the dog.

Remote collars offer three different kinds of stimulation:

Pressing the Nick button causes a very short single pulse of electrical stimulation. It automatically shuts off in a fraction of a second, no matter how long the button is held down.

The Nick is used as a substitute for leash corrections when the dog is off lead. It is mild but motivating!

This seems to be in your own head though Denis.

This thread isn't about positive only versus electric collars anyway - the Westie in the story received no "postive only" training as far as I can see.

It got bangs and crashes and was made sick -hardly anything positive about that. Maybe ths thread should be called "bad training versus more bad training"

Wiziwig
Thing is Dawn, most of us have known Clob/Denis Carthy for a long time,

Denis
You should not go around making such false statements, I haven't got a clue who any wiziwig is, seen the name on here but it means absolutely nothing to me, wiziwig? nope, nothing.

I didn't say you know me, the point is that I know you (and i'd be surprised if you didn't know me)

Wiziwig
This seems to be in your own head though Denis.

Denis
No, you need to read the first post, anyway, they dont stop at me I'm just a catchment point, trainers are getting these all the time and they are acting and pet onwers are only to happy to relay it these days.

Even the Kennel Club in its May 26th web site post moaned for the very first about all round and e-collar trainers contacting DEFRA - I dont know how they got hold of that info but they seem to have done somehow.