Its beneficial to scan as you know whether the bitch is in whelp or not!


If the bitch only has one or two it could be mistaken for a false pregnancy. Knowing she had puppies inside her would mean she got every bit of extra care she requires, rather than thinking she wasnt and maybe not going to the extremes she wouldnt normally require.

Thanks for that DD. It is nice to hear someone actually admit it. I don't know why it is so often said that a good breeder makes no profit. I have never been able to fathom that out myself. I have no problem at all with a conscientious breeder making a profit at all btw.

especially when you think of a large litter of, say, GSDs being sold for around £800 a pup.
I do not know where you get your figures for the price of a GSD, but the current going rate for EXCELLENT stock with all breed health tests go for around £5- 600.

Also, if you have paid a stud fee plus travelling costs plus herpes injections etc etc etc and do not have a litter?

see, from the other angle.

£150 to buy a pup/£200 for a rescue isnt that much. Its pennies to a lot of people. So you are going to make dogs even more throwaway than they seem to be atm.

Money doesnt seem to stop people "getting bored" with any pet. Be it dog cat or python.

I think that a dog ownership test is probably the best way forward, and breeders to be accountable for their puppies (I know most good breeders are, same as most good breeders health test) but if the byb had to take back an out of control 2yo, they they might think 2x about breeding in the first place.

No problem. Yes many people dont seem to admit I also have no problem with an ethical breeder making money - as long as money was not the main factor/sole purpose of the litter. Most of the time the money will go back into the dogs anyway - like will go towards - testing the pup you keep, promoting your lines at shows and other such things.

I paid £750 two years ago for my last GSD pup.

So what those of us who care about dog welfare want is for the price of a dog or puppy to be low enough to deter BYBs & puppy farms from making any money, but high enough to cover (or least make a dent in!) the costs of ethical & responsible breeders? Is that about right?

I think, unfortunately, this may be where the idea of price fixing falls down!

Exactly! We have had a couple of litters of sheepdog pups in the past 3 years. The pups were sold for £150 each (I think) and even if we did make a slight profit (which I am sure we did) the money will be put right back into the dogs anyway. The main reason for having a litter was to keep a couple for work for ourselves, not for the money.

However, and some will no doubt see this as inethical, we also ran on a couple of pups from the last litter and have from this last litter, they will be part trained and sold on. Yes, we will make a bit of a profit in monetary terms, but in terms of expertise and man hour's then surely that should be seen as ok?

Basics based on a healthy litter of 7 anbd keeping 2 which is what we usually do.
Health tests £220.00
Stud Feed £600.00
Petrol for 4 matings £160.00
puppy food for mum £120.00 (at least)
Puppy Porridge £88.00
Vets £140.00 (providing all ok)
Puppy food £160.00 (again at least)
Vacc £280.00
Microchipping £150.00
Puppy pack and inst. £300.00 (approx)
Heat lamp £224.00 (£3 per day extra)
Vet beds £140.00 (new for each litter)
Extra Washing £100.00
Final Vet check £66.00
3 weeks off work £750
======
3498.00
5 puppies at £150 750
Loss 2748

I had a singleton last year whos cost the following so far

Health test £220
Stud Fees £600
petrol £160
Food for mum £120
Puppy porridge £44
vets £295 (After hrs call out and scan)
puppy Food £44
vac £40
Microchip £20
Heat lamp £224
vet beds £140
Extra washing £100
2 week off work £750
=====
2278 (Loss)

If I sell 5 of the pups at £800 I make 4000
Which leaves a grand profit on one litter alone of £502 thats doesnt take into account the petrol to and from the vets twice, the sleepless nights, the heartbreak when something goes wrong and you lose a puppy, and as iv'e said most of the food costs is estimated. I suspect this litter will cost more as the're all little piggies

If your profits drop you simply invest less in the product to still make a profit.

So instead of expensive food/tests/stud/vets you just feed the cheapest, don't test, use next doors dog and only go to the vet if the dog is about to die!

A personal example, I have lowered my prices in the face of cuts, so I now drive a more economic car.

On the subject of making breeders take their dogs back ect, I have know cases were breeders do this, but if the dog has any issues they just take it down the vets and pts.

Adam