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leo
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30-01-2007, 09:32 PM

question about dobbies.

am i right that you can get red and rust dobbies from black and tan parents?
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Trouble
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30-01-2007, 09:40 PM
it is possible to get all 5 colours in one litter apparently. It all depends on whats in their lines already.
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Trouble
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30-01-2007, 09:45 PM
COAT COLOUR INHERITANCE IN DOBERMANNS
WRITTEN BY LYSA RECTOR

Coat colour inheritance in the Dobermann is relatively easy to predict. While there are actually 5 colours, there are only 3 sets of genes that determine colour. When discssing genetics and genotypes, basic scientific nomenclature dictates that a capital letter is used to represent the dominant gene in a pair, and the lower case letter designates the recessive.
The first pair of genes we will discuss are the 2 most common, seen in all Dobes. They are the colour genes, determining the basic, intrinsic colour of the Dobe, either Black (B) or Brown (b). All Dobermanns are either Black or Brown, but colour can be modified by the other 2 pairs of genes.
If a Dobermann has 2 Black genes (BB) it will be Black. If it has 2 Brown genes (bb) it will be Brown. If it has one of each (Bb) it will be a Brown factored Black, which is a Black capable of producing Brown. Every parent Dobermann contributes either a Black gene or a Brown gene to its offspring. BB Dobermanns always contribute a B gene, bb Dobermanns always contribute a b gene, and Bb Dobermanns can contribute one or the other, with a 50% probability of each.
The second pair of genes we will discuss determine the intensity of colour. This pair of genes is called the dilution factor, seen in Black Dobermanns as Blue, and in Brown Dobermanns as Fawn. Becuase dilution is a recessive trait, having the effect of lightening the colour of Blacks and Browns, 2 of these recessive genes must be present in order to express visible influence. We will call the Lack of dilution D, and the presence of dilution d. A Dobermann with DD will not show or be able to produce dilution. A Dobermann with Dd will not show dilution - it will be Black or Brown, but it will be able to produce dilution. A Dobermann that is dd is a dilute - a Blue or a Fawn. A Black Dobermann with dd is a Blue and a Brown Doermann with dd is a Fawn.
Two important terms are genotype and phenotype. The genotype is the Dobermanns genetic potential to express a particular trait, in this case colour. The phenotype describes how the Dobermann looks - in this case, Black, Brown, Blue or Fawn (or White - we will get to White in a minute.) There are 5 possible phenotypes. There are 27 possible genotypes, but we will only discuss 9 right now.
The first is a Black Dobermann that can only produce Black offspring. This Dobes genotype is BBDD. It is a double Homozygous (2 pairs of matching genes, i.e BB,bb,DD,dd)dominant. This is referred to as a #1 Black.
The second is a Black that can produce Black and Blue offspring. It is a Homozygous Black that 'carries' a recessive dilution gene. (heterozygous - a non-matching pair of genes, i.e - Bb,Dd) The genotype of this Dobe is BBDd. It is referred to as a #2 Black.
The third is a Black that can produce Black and Brown offspring - it is heterozygous (Bb) for colour, and homozygous for intensity - in this case, DD - it can not produce dilution. This is called a #3 Black. Its genotype is BbDD.
The fourth is a double heterozygous. It is heterozygous for colour Bb,and heterozygous for dilution Dd. It 'carries' both a 'hidden' Brown gene, and a 'hidden' gene for dilution. It is called a #4 Black, and it can produce Black, Brown, Blue and Fawn. Its genotype is BbDd.
The fifth is a #5 Blue. This is also a double homozygous. It is homozygous Black,BB, that is also homozygous for dilution, dd. It can produce Blacks and Blues only. The genotype is BBdd.
The sixth is a #6 Blue. This Dobermann is heterozygous for colour, Bb. It is homozygous for dilution, dd. Its genotype is Bbdd and it can produce Blacks, Browns, Blues and Fawns.
The seventh is a #7 Brown. This Dobermann is also a double homozygous - bb makes it brown. DD means that it can not produce dilution.
The eighth is a #8 Brown. This Brown can produce dilution. Its genotype is bbDd.
The ninth is a #9 Fawn. This is a double homozygous recessive. It contains 2 pairs of recessive genes. bb makes it Brown, and dd lightens the Brown, giving Fawn.
It is important to realize, that each parent contributes one gene FROM EACH PAIR to each of its offspring. Therefore, each parent contributes one gene for colour and one for intensity of colour to each pup.
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leo
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30-01-2007, 09:49 PM
was looking at the different colours the other night......are the blues a lighter black/greyish colour.
my son came back from a fellow cadets house last night they have a black and tan dobbie called louie.
was showing him, i am glad to say even though mum put the dog on the lead probably thinking lou would be scared etc and its a dobbie thing in his head, he just walked upto the dog said hello and they was friends.
by the sounds of it she was quite taken back by louis behaviour and the fact is he treated the dog as a dog and not by the breed.
but then again she aint seen ours.
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leo
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30-01-2007, 09:52 PM
thanks and guess what i actually understood it good for me at this time of night.
so the blue is a dliuted black which is what i thought from the pictures i found.
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Trouble
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30-01-2007, 09:57 PM
Blue Dobbies as young pups are a gorgeous gun metal grey colour, but and it is quite a big but they don't seem to retain their colour. I could be very tempted by one if they did, but the adults I have met tend to fade to a much lighter shade and it's not always an even colour. My friend has an adult blue and he is a bit faded, sort of a lightish grey.
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Trouble
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30-01-2007, 10:03 PM


All the same litter
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leo
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30-01-2007, 10:05 PM
think dobbies could be our next breed in time, oh likes the blacks i like the reds............so i think you can say 2 again.
so the only way your'll know what each breeder has is by giving them a ring?
i can see the blues and the blacks are the other (light ones) the fawns then?
what are they like as adults?
off to find a piccy.
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Trouble
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30-01-2007, 10:15 PM
Yep, the breeder will know their lines and should be able to say what they expect. Mixed litters of browns and blacks are pretty common, but if you want a specific colour such as brown like I did, you can't necessarily predict how many of each turn up in the litter. I wanted a brown male first and of course they were predominantly female or black males. I found an alternative breeder who was obviously expecting a mixed litter and had ended up with all browns except for 1 black and I was spoilt for choice. 2nd time around I wanted a brown female and yep you've guessed it they popped out males or blacks, but this time I found a breeder who's pups were due a week later and had no reservation for a brown bitch and luckily I had a choice of 2 once they were born. My two have the same sire who is a black and tan. Happy hunting
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Borderdawn
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30-01-2007, 10:17 PM
Yes, black to black can produce brown. Dont start me on whites!!
Dawn.
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