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Moonstone
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26-01-2011, 06:43 PM
When I was in the UK, and for my own dogs totally against it.

Now moving here, and seeing the terrible over breeding, and how many dogs are euthanised in shelters, as they are just so full, I can understand why rescues/shelters do it. In an ideal world no dog should be spayed/neutered before adulthood, but sadly we don't live in one, and people can not always be trusted to return with the dog to be spayed/neutered. It's the only way a lot of places can guarantee that the puppy will not be used to bred from in the future, and end up making the problem worse.
Sad situation, but can't see what else rescues that are at bursting point can do, they can't hold on to puppies until they are mature, and we all know people lie or fail to do something that they promised to do at a later date,or forget, and rescues can't physically go around checking every single dog at maturity.
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Krusewalker
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26-01-2011, 06:58 PM
Originally Posted by Loki's mum View Post
It's not a general comment, but one specifically aimed at a particular kennels, one which doesn't socialise it's pups. And it is not alone either. The pups were not allowed to be fostered as the kennel manager believed they would be vulnerable to infection.
if you are telling us you know for sure that this kennel doesnt socialise, fair enough.

but i am still not seeing how the criteria you mention, including the above, automatically equates to lack of socialisation?
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werewolf
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26-01-2011, 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by muttzrule View Post
Its not ideal, but its done here a good deal of the time and honestly haven't seen any ill effects. I will say that the larger breed dogs tend to be longer legged/taller than they maybe might have been, but no more of them have HD or other problems because of it.

I don't know what your overpopulation situation is like over there, but here, millions of healthy, wonderful animals are dying in shelters every year because their aren't enough homes and too many are allowed to breed indiscriminantly. In an ideal world, everyone could be trusted to be responsible and prevent unwanted pregnancy. Unfortunately, this world is far from ideal, and rescue groups are spaying/neutering before adoption to provide the only 100% full proof option of preventing more unwanted pets. The benefits outweigh any risk.

In fact, puppies recover from the surgery so much faster and more easily than adults. Not saying its ideal by any means, but I don't believe it does any harm.
Thanks for this post, well balanced and informative , it has answered a question I have wondered about.
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werewolf
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26-01-2011, 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by Moonstone View Post
When I was in the UK, and for my own dogs totally against it.

Now moving here, and seeing the terrible over breeding, and how many dogs are euthanised in shelters, as they are just so full, I can understand why rescues/shelters do it. In an ideal world no dog should be spayed/neutered before adulthood, but sadly we don't live in one, and people can not always be trusted to return with the dog to be spayed/neutered. It's the only way a lot of places can guarantee that the puppy will not be used to bred from in the future, and end up making the problem worse.
Sad situation, but can't see what else rescues that are at bursting point can do, they can't hold on to puppies until they are mature, and we all know people lie or fail to do something that they promised to do at a later date,or forget, and rescues can't physically go around checking every single dog at maturity.
Again, good to see it from another Country's perspective.
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lozzibear
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26-01-2011, 10:53 PM
I dont agree with it in general, but the numbers of dogs dying in kennels is heartbreaking. There are so many people breeding willy nilly, that is what I find disgusting. Rescues need to do something, spaying/neutering is the only way to make sure those dogs dont add to the overbreeding. The benefits outweigh the risks IMO.
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sarah1983
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27-01-2011, 12:03 AM
I can see the reason they do it but I don't like it and I have to admit it would put me off getting a pupy from a rescue or breeder that insisted on neutering that young.

I don't know what else they could do though. People lie, people don't bother getting the dog neutered even though it's in the contract etc.
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Brundog
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27-01-2011, 11:12 PM
applauding these posts
Originally Posted by Moonstone View Post
When I was in the UK, and for my own dogs totally against it.

Now moving here, and seeing the terrible over breeding, and how many dogs are euthanised in shelters, as they are just so full, I can understand why rescues/shelters do it. In an ideal world no dog should be spayed/neutered before adulthood, but sadly we don't live in one, and people can not always be trusted to return with the dog to be spayed/neutered. It's the only way a lot of places can guarantee that the puppy will not be used to bred from in the future, and end up making the problem worse.
Sad situation, but can't see what else rescues that are at bursting point can do, they can't hold on to puppies until they are mature, and we all know people lie or fail to do something that they promised to do at a later date,or forget, and rescues can't physically go around checking every single dog at maturity.
Originally Posted by lozzibear View Post
I dont agree with it in general, but the numbers of dogs dying in kennels is heartbreaking. There are so many people breeding willy nilly, that is what I find disgusting. Rescues need to do something, spaying/neutering is the only way to make sure those dogs dont add to the overbreeding. The benefits outweigh the risks IMO.
and muttzrule
I don't know what your overpopulation situation is like over there, but here, millions of healthy, wonderful animals are dying in shelters every year because their aren't enough homes and too many are allowed to breed indiscriminantly. In an ideal world, everyone could be trusted to be responsible and prevent unwanted pregnancy. Unfortunately, this world is far from ideal, and rescue groups are spaying/neutering before adoption to provide the only 100% full proof option of preventing more unwanted pets. The benefits outweigh any risk.
Certainly in My breed, I am glad to see it, as its not getting any better,staffies are the first to be put to sleep than any other breed in this country, so if it saves more dogs being needlessly bred for a poor life to die alone on a vets table, then I am all for it.

I dont think its ideal and would rather it didnt happen in general but how many times do you hear of accidental matings......

Its not just bad dog owners that this happens to.... it only takes a second for puppies to be in the pipeline !
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BWS
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28-01-2011, 08:26 AM
we spay and castrate all our dogs and have done as young as 16 weeks and we deal with over 100 vets in scotland and all tell us the same the op is so much easier and a young dog gets over it so much quicker so I am all in favour of neutering young
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JoedeeUK
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28-01-2011, 08:30 AM
Originally Posted by Brundog View Post
..........................................
I dont think its ideal and would rather it didnt happen in general but how many times do you hear of accidental matings......

Its not just bad dog owners that this happens to.... it only takes a second for puppies to be in the pipeline !

There are no such thing as an accidental mating-I've got a bitch in season here & 4 entire dogs. I ensure that there are no negligent matings by being a responsible owner-not having too early very invasive surgery done on my puppy bitch
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Mother*ship
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28-01-2011, 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by muttzrule View Post
Its not ideal, but its done here a good deal of the time and honestly haven't seen any ill effects. I will say that the larger breed dogs tend to be longer legged/taller than they maybe might have been, but no more of them have HD or other problems because of it.

I don't know what your overpopulation situation is like over there, but here, millions of healthy, wonderful animals are dying in shelters every year because their aren't enough homes and too many are allowed to breed indiscriminantly. In an ideal world, everyone could be trusted to be responsible and prevent unwanted pregnancy. Unfortunately, this world is far from ideal, and rescue groups are spaying/neutering before adoption to provide the only 100% full proof option of preventing more unwanted pets. The benefits outweigh any risk.

In fact, puppies recover from the surgery so much faster and more easily than adults. Not saying its ideal by any means, but I don't believe it does any harm.
Although I don't think it's ideal I can understand why Rescues do it.

I am completely against breeders who do it just to protect their profits.

J.
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