A vicious dog fight

Hello everyone,
2 months ago we homed 8 months old american bull/staff bitch Honey. We found her hanging from the tree badly beaten, with broken ribs unable to put her front paws down. She was in a distressing state. We already had one dog, 10 months old dogue de bordeaux also bitch -Misha...At first we were really worried about having two bitches together.

Honey, turned out to be an absolute dream dog..Very submissive, loving and constantly giving attention to everyone - even Misha. When MIsha is asleep she will come up to her and start licking her, nibbling her gently and puts her paw on her...Misha is however not a very affectionat dog. We have had her since puppy and to be honest she is a bit spoilt. So Honey has been living with Misha for 4 months now everything going fine until a few days ago when she turned aggresive towards MIsha over a stick. She viciously attacked her leg resulting in Misha having to have stiches.

Now, the vet said the dogs have to be separated otherwise it will happen again. We really want to keep Honey as she is absolutely amazing with other dogs, children and people. Neither of them have been neutered and Misha is currently in season. The vet said we could try to neuter them both and see how we get on but she thinks it will happen again... We really don't know what to do as Honey has never been aggresive before, she is very very submissive and affectionate. We really want to keep her.

So we were wondering whether anybody ever had the same problem? Should we keep her or will she snap again over a stick? Many thanks.

I would get them both spayed and see if things are better when hormones are out of the picture .

That and keep all toys/sticks/balls/food away when they are both together, You need to be aware of the triggers and avoid those situations.

We have two girls and had them spayed one year ago. Not had a problem in any way since and our Bara sounds a bit like Misha, she is not overly affectionate and definately wants to be top dog. Prior to that there were a few fights (Not too serious) always around the time one of them was in season.

Does Honey normally take the 'junior' role ie will she lay down and roll over if Misha comes up to her to reprimand her. Does Misha ever try to dominatre Honey (jump on her back, humping etc. )

As Fensmum says I would also get them spayed and try to see what the hierachy is, there will usually be one who wants to be top dog. Once the other one has accepted the status quo then peace will usually reign.

They are very close in age and young and in my opinion this can be difficult . I like to have at leat a couple of years difference between bitches in my pack but obviously as you rescued the second girl it wasnt an option. When I have worked with dogs in these situations I have always found it easier and more successful to re bond males but bitches are harder and seem to remember and bare a grudge without wanting to be too human about it!

However I do believe it is your pack and you decide who is in it and I have two rescues in my pack that had several bad fights in the early days but with careful handling and reintroduction are now closely bonded.

What I did with these two was walk them on leads with a friend, I had one and she had the other and we went to neutral ground somewhere neither had been and walked for miles. This helped them bond as the areas were full of other dog scents but as on leads and kept moving they could watch each other at a safe distance and there was no pressure to interact. It also meant that when we got home they were tired and more relaxed in the house together (which makes things easier for you). All toys were removed and they had to work for everything, we worked hard on their basic obedience so they respected us and watched them like hawks for a couple of months so that if they started to circle each other or look agitated we could distract before the tension built up.
Speying wont solve everything and you will need to do some training too.
If they do fight try not to put hands on them as this can make matters worse and you could get injured, have some buckets of water in the back yard ready to throw over them and inside the house making a lot of noise close to them can stop a fight e.g. banging a metal spoon on a sauce pan! Obviously you will need to separate them if unsupervised.
Try to stay calm, I know its not easy and you will probably be on the edge of your seat for a while but use some calming signals such as yawning and sighing so that they dont pick up on your concerns which can affect their behaviour. Good luck.

when Kismet cwas about the same age she attacked Selkie quite viciously. Fortunately she just ended up with a mouth of fur. But Selkie was very wary of her for a while afterwards.... There have been one or two other spats over food or treats.

They are fine together now, we manage and for the most part haven't had to change much about the way we treat them. Still we don't put them in a situation where they might compete over a resource. Kismet is fed in a different room and they are not allowed bones together. If Kismet is becoming possessive over something, no matter what it is, it is taken away from her straight away.

Just be a bit vigilant and I don't see why you would have to re-home either of them. They'll calm down once they are spayed and with time. Just be consistent with them and watch for the signs. Don't let it get to that position again...

I personally would put it down to hormones. If you spey them then I would have thought it would help the problem.

ETA: IMO don't separate them (unless you leave them alone) as if you do that, IMO you are creating a divider in the pack and I would have thought it would cause more problems. If you are unsure about Honey biting Misha again, maybe muzzle her just for the time being, just so you relax, and they will both pick up on this.

I agree, seperating them will just make things much worse.

I also agree that speying will help as it will tone down the hormones. People always think that two dogs together will fight but its actually bitches that are worse together.

Also agree that you should remove any triggers like toys etc and monitor them closely at meal times.

Its worth bearing in mind that when you take in a rescue they are often on their best behaviour for the first few months as they test the ground. It is very common for problems to arise at the 2 month stage as the new dog is starting to 'feel its feet'

to be honest spaying does not always solve the aggression...........talking from experience. agree with annette once the "honeymoon" period is over then the dogs true colours start to appear

Just a few thoughts

It may have been due to the hormones in which case it might happen again at some stage. You may then need to consider either management or spaying ... and I agree spaying may not solve the problem if they've had opportunity to fight a few times (?) and if one just does not like the other.

It may have been due to resource guarding (are they usually OK with sharing? was one trying to take the stick off the other? etc) and not hormones as such. You would probably notice this though as it would continue after the hormones have settled ...

It may have been due to some trigger you didn't notice although you do feel it was due to the stick thing..

Dogs learn what can and can't be done with certain other dogs, via learning - ie classical and operant conditioning. A dog who may be the "boss" in the house may not be the same on say a walk, (although they may be the same). Often so-called "hierarchy" is actually very fluid. So I'd suggest thinking more in terms of relationships and how the dogs react to each other than actual hierarchy. I hope that makes some kind of sense - it's quite early yet and i've had no coffee

If it were me I'd probably get a reputable behaviourist in to assess and help but only from the apbc though as there's too many out there who are not very good.
Wys
x