Exactly. Yes the European have better restrictions in place and heavily emphasise on health testing - which can only be a good thing, but they are still producing sick dogs. Look at Zamp the american GSD crufts winner for example. The problem is inbreeding/linebreeding and breeding for conformation.

Oh dear not looking good for the KC is it?

I imagine the program did have some clever editing and yes it did focus on the negative. But i think the people making the programe found the negative SO bad that any positive steps the KC are making is too little too late.

The attitude of the higher ups in the KC stank and no wonder there has been so little change. The fact the guy felt he knew better then a genetics expert about genetics because he 'knew the dogs' speaks volumes to me. The film shows a level of arrogance and snobbery which is only going to end in more disasters for the dogs they breed.

A major problem with the KC for me is the fact it is still run by the 'old boys club' until this changes i dont see much else being done.

And this is how I think a lot of people will react and why I think it is a shame that the programme did not go a bit further into saying to people what to look for when getting a dog.

Before joining Dogsey, I admit I was pretty anti-pedigree dogs. I believed that all the breeders were in it for the money and that most pedigree dogs were over-bred and suffering as a result.

Since being on Dogsey I have learnt that there are breeders out there who simply love their dogs and will go to the utmost lengths to protect the health and temperment of their chosen breed

There are still advantages with pedigree dogs and I think the main one is having a good idea what temperament/traits the dog will have.

For some people, not knowing is not so much of a problem, but for others, it could be disasterous. For example, a very old couple would not normally pick a high energy dog such as a border collie. But if they opt for a dog of complete unknown parentage (mongrel)...how do they know what their pup is going to turn into?

We laugh (in a sad way) about people returning big breeds because 'they got too big', but this is because it would have been obvious. With a mongrel, you have much less idea and I could see more being handed back because they got too big or because they developed traits the owner wasn't prepared for.

And....how many of the people who breed the first crosses and mongrels will be prepared to take a pup they have bred back?

And as for first crosses, I can't see that they will be any better than the pedigrees, unless you choose the match very carefully and consider the health problems of both breeds. For example, imagine the bad results you could get by crossing a pug with a peke.

At least with a pedigree, despite the bad ones there are still many breeders who do take the health and temperament of their dogs very seriously. But what are the chances of people breeding first crosses doing the same?

So, whilst I do agree with the statement that 'generally' non-pedigrees are healthier than pedigrees, I really don't think that encouraging people to start breeding crossbreeds/mongrels is the answer as I think this will just result in more and more dogs ending up in rescue.

Absolutley discusted watching that program and yes you can see why the KC didn't want it aired those poor dog's

How can anyone breed from animals knowing the suffering that they are going to cause to there offspring, any breeder who willing uses a bitch / dog knowing that it is of poor health regardless of breed should be ashamed of themselves and not be allowed to continue to breed, as for the judges who place these dogs knowing that they shouldn't be in the ring never mind made up to champions where they know people are going to want to use them for breeding well IMO they should be struck off all judging list's perminantley.

The KC needs to stop putting money matters first and do there job properly and as for the RSPCA there quite happily going along knowing about these poor dogs and doing nothing about it which means there still being bred from and more dog's will suffer and owners will have there hearts broken, yet they call it cruel to dock a tail they need to get there priority's right


Mo and the Gang

I was thinking I bet some some of these people portrayed last night are judges too.Least I know for sure one of the breeders is as I have been in the ring with him judging Rotts.Makes a whole mockery of showing in my eyes,can't believe he went on to breed his dog too,xxxxxxxxx

I do NOT breed Cavaliers.

Loukar(a male)has SM diagnosed by MRI scan-he has no symptoms at all despite having the malformation, herniation & the syrinx. Joedee(also a male)has not been scanned but has had three 30 sec SM episodes in 2006.

I was told by both Clare R(the vet in the program)& Geoff Skerritt(one of the top veterinary Neurologists in the world)that SM is directly linked to the malformation of the skull, because this malformation allows the brain to herniate from the skull & stop the cerebral fluid from draining from the brain & being retained in the ventricals of the brain, the spinal cord also develops syrinx(like pool of fluid). What is not known is why some dogs are like Lou-have all the internal physical conditions yet have no symptoms at all & others have the extremely painful episodes.

At no time did either vet give the reason Clare R gave in the program-that the brain was too big for the skull

Geoff Skerritt does a much simpler operation he puts a shunt between the skull & the spinal column to allow the fluid to flow out of the skull & he has done many successful operations.

With the KC funding for the DNA research(ooops this was omitted from the program doh I wonder why ???)(along with other funding BTW)it is hoped that the DNA marker genes(as it is a polygenetic condition)will be found along with the MVD marker gene within 18 months. No mention of any research being done at all & Clare was one of the first doing the research !!!

It is not as cut & dried as the program made out. I've not viewed the whole program yet so do not know who the breeder was who used her dog knowing that he was affected(or a carrier)

Excellent post.

I completely agree with you, word for word

Yep, I saw this guy as well...saying "What do all these scientists and geneticists know about my dogs? I've had them for 40 years and know them inside out (blah, blah, blah)"

So you're telling me that a qualified geneticist with years and years of education and hard studying and graft behind them, who works in a community that has dedicated itself to understanding DNA and the repercussions of combining it in different forms doesn't know anything?

Yes, a good breeder (and I'm wondering how we can apply that term anymore) will know their dogs inside out. They'll know whether they have dominant or recessive traits, and which dog to put to which bitch etc. But how can they possible see what is going on inside? How (without appropriate testing over several generations) can they be sure that the line-breeding they do isn't causing DNA mutations that aren't visible in the dogs look/conformation but that will result in epilepsy, or a heart murmer, or that terrible disease (that I still can't spell) that the Cavs had? How can a breeder tell that without the help of a scientist?

I think when you do watch it you will see that there is a very brief mention of the DNA research (admitedly blink and you'll miss it, but it was mentioned).

Concerning the GSD that won a 1st, does anyone know which show this was, which class, and who the judge was?

Maybe it was a veterans class, or 'disabled' class?

If not, I'd like to hear a justification for awarding a 1st to that particular dog. It could hardly walk.