Hello Kristina.
To answer your questions,
1) Yes.
2) No, I am totally anti smacking, my son has never had a finger raised to him and never will have. Why? Because I was smacked as a child and I remember clearly, being over my mother's knee, at the age of about 5, thinking, this doesn't mean you're right, it just means that at this moment you are bigger and more powerful than me, it does not make you right. I vowed then I'd never do it to a child of mine. Hurting something or someone, in my opinion, makes you morally wrong and achieves nothing in the long term. My opinion.

Still think we need to leave it now, but was happy to answer you Kristina, not that I think whether I agree with smacking has got anything to do with this debate, as SB says.

Question ABOUT denis not directed at denis.

Does denis SELL ecollars? Does denis make MONEY through the use of ecollars.

I can't understand or have the time to read his garbled posts.

He denies selling them I think, but yes makes money out of their use...but only if they work...

Thats fair enough i just wondered if the people who are very pro positve only training also have the same views when it comes to diciplining children. I know its very different because children can be reasoned with and can understand you explaining why something is bad/ shouldnt be done. i.e if reasoning with a child doesnt work would you smack their butt? You know as a last resort. I was smacked as a kid when i'd been naughty and i think it did me the world of good. It definitely hurt but it didnt HURT hurt (as in no lasting pain etc)....

Also i have actually tested an e collar on myself. I think it had 8 settings and also it did a buzzing noise which you could use seperately. Anyway the first setting was like a static shock you would get off the Tv, the second was more like a little zap from a plug socket (had one of those recently while in the states) and the third one was a bit stronger still. Anyway none of those settings really hurt but when we tried 4 it really did hurt! I certainly didnt try any higher ones!!!!!!

Please dont ask what make it was cos i have no idea and it was a couple of years ago now all i know it had a collar and a remote. Basically i saw this man walking his dog on the same fields as me quite regularly and i heard every now and then a funny buzzing noise. Eventually i worked out it was only when this pair were around so i asked him what it was. He explained it was the collar and he used it to stop his dog (a mixed something) from trying to kill everything that it saw move. I'd never seen one before and didnt know anything really about them so i asked if i could try it on my hand and he let me. By the way the dog wasnt ever aggressive to myself or murphy. Anyway he said he'd had it for some time and the buzzing was a warning sound.

Basically as i understood it, he had used this collar because the dog became 'deaf' when he saw any kind of 'prey'. Anyway just before the collar 'shocks' this buzzer sounds so after a couple of days of using it the dog associated the buzz as a warning and he said he never had to shock him again, the buzz was enough to get the dog to stop and listen or at least stop chasing and wait for him to secure it.

To be honest i dont really agree with the e-collars, except perhaps in the most extreme of circumstances, (not saying his was an extreme circumstance cos it didnt seem like it to me) however i think the idea of this buzzer thing is quite good. Almost like a clicker says 'good behaviour well done' this buzzer says 'bad behaviour dont do it!' i just think it would be nice to be able to teach a dog that the buzzer means bad without shocking it first if you know what i mean.

Yeah - I thought as much....

Sounds to me like he is trying to convert the masses and make his million.

Sick.

Scientifically the dog does not get an instant reward after negative reinforcement; I know this from discussions with those who first studied OC with the Brelands/Baileys so if you want to change science I suggest you get in touch with Bob Bailey and ask him

Yes to question 1 (Dogtra) and no to question 2 agree also that Q2 isn't really that relevant (not being rude just being honest ).

I wonder about the dog you saw and what his breed was - some dogs are highly bred to hunt of course and really what this kind of dog may need is to be under control (ie a gundog) and not zapped - it's about lazy training quite often IME. Also people buy high drive dogs and can't control them nor give them enough exercise so out comes the electric collar. Same with dogs on farms, peeps buy dogs who are not suitable and the dogs are allowed to roam, given no training or stimulation or boundaries and expected to just "fit in" and then shock! the dog kills a lamb or a chicken. Again to me this is lazy training and bad management, dogs will be dogs and this should be takken into account. Also if a dog has a high hunting drive this should be channelled into games etc rather than repressed as the latter isn't healthy

Yes felt one and it didnt hurt half as much as the electric Horse fence when I touched that!
Dawn.

I totally know where you and Ailsa and Jackbox are coming from and I'd do the same - except - if such posters are allowed to post, sound authoritative and there is no-one to gainsay them, what then? If no-one replied at all that would be good as the thread would die a death, but someone will always reply (sometimes even days later!)

Agree.

If people do not have the ability to train the dog, then they should seek professional help.

And before people say - well I got someone and they did no good:

a) ALL dogs are different

b) NEVER hire someone with out getting references from PAST clients first. There are cowboys in EVERY walk of life. You wouldn't send your kid to a school you had never heard of, or checked up on would you? Neither would you send them to a school which still promoted the use of the cane.