Was it you that posted JR had a new(ish) book out?
Or am I getting mixed up....

I really dont see the problem with witholding meals to use in training.
The idea is (if im undertsanding right ) ...take the dog out, practice recalls, he gets part of his ration each time he recalls, if he recalls little or not at all, tough luck, no food. Then take dog out again (having not been fed apart from on earlier training), train again, give the dog rations for recalling, again if it doesnt work then tough luck. Repeat until the dog is recalling. The dog is not stupid, he knows you have the food, if he chooses not to recall for a day or two then its his choice...dogs will not starve themselves through choice, eventually, hunger will be a bigger motivator than the other dogs etc, so he will recall and low and behold, he gets his food!
Dogs learn behaviours through repetition, further down the line, one would hope you have put in enough training for the behaviour to be consistent...and then there will be no need for a reward 100% of the time...same reason agility/obedience/hwtm dogs do more than one obstacle/exercise before being rewarded.

well thats what I thought

SB
again I ask

the OP says her dog is not eating while other dogs are around
EVEN after missing 2 meals he still is not interested in treats

How many more meals do you advise she witholds?

2 meals is for the average dog, one days worth of food. Harldy "starving" him

Yip it was me .. a very good read

But the issue was the dog was unable to take treats in the environment where there were other dogs about

She advised that he wasnt hungry enough and needed more meals skipped - I was trying to find out how many meals she recomends because it is unclear on here


I have no problem rewarding a dog with his meals

I have a big problem PUNISHING a dog for not doing what you want by depriving him of meals

I also disagree with the idea that if a FOODY dog from a foody breed who is trained with treats in other situations is uninterested in treats in a very distracting environment - even raw meat - it is because the dog is simply not hungry

Having a very food orientated lab when its just us she will train fine, other dogs she is just not interested, I have used this method to improve her recall, she is 8 and after years of being able to 'bog off' I don't ever expect she will have an amazing recall.

Summer can only be let off in certain situations and over the years I have had her she has been in a couple dangerous situations, yes I know they were my fault and that is how I learnt what situations Summer cannot be off lead for, my point being the couple of sticky situations where she could have been seriously hurt were because her recall was miserable and would have been avoided if I had ensured a great recall (if only I'd found this site years ago!) I would prefer to let my dog go hungry and ensure this recall, dogs have a survival instinct I find it very hard to believe any dog would go for 2 days let alone 4 with no food at all once it twigged going back to owner will get them food.

Isn't letting it go hungry enough that it comes back when called and learns that behaviour has the positive of food better than something happening or worse still losing your dog in an accident?

With Keira I have been whistling every single meal I put down and she will now always come back to the whistle, I haven't tried when we are in the park with lots of distractions yet but will be doing soon I'm probably going a bit OTT with her recall after Summers being so poor but if I get it right this time I'll be a very happy bunny and its going well so far...

Oh.... and Summer went for about half a day, on her first day she probably only got about a third of her daily ration of food, second day she had twigged and had nearly every bag she is miles better now and is having her full meal allowance, still only letting her off lead where I know I can get her if she won't come back but so much better, we've been doing it for about 4 weeks so still a long way to go

Thats the big thing tho - its not either the dog has to be trained with hunger or they will just have no recal
there are other ways to train

and a dog does not have to be hungry to be trainer
Infact hunger inhibits learning - I am a driving instructor and I always advise pupils to eat a little something before a test as being hungry means you cant concentrate as well

also if the dog will take treats and recal in other situation it is not a case of hunger - it is the fact that other dogs are too exciting

all SB's cut and pasted training articles talk about building distractions/times up slowly
Going from in the garden to the park is, for this dog, too big a leap
The OP says she has trained a great recal in the house and in the garden
So the issue is taking too big steps

and the dog isnt going to learn anything as he is simply not taking the treats