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Borderdawn
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25-03-2008, 09:57 PM
[QUOTE=youngstevie;1324666]
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
But what you are NOT thinking about is the predators numbers have fallen to within extintion levels! Seal numbers are continuing to rise!! nature doesnt "sort itself out" it gets out of control if not managed.[/QUOT

Whilst I agree with what you say, my point is why have they. Again, alot of that will be down to humansthe killings of whales and the poisons (oil spills) etc., we are detroying this world, not just the beautiful things in it. Battering something to death is not my idea of exceptable. We don't cull the adult females before they mate we go and cull helpless babies. The question asked was do we agree, I don't, but I am just 'little old me' if this has to be done do it humanely. Ask yourself this, if someone 'battered' your dogs to death, would you not be sicken. When they have finished the whole ice is completely blood stained. What I would love is people to go and see with thier own eye's (I did) and it's a vision that will never leave you I promise.
They cull the babies because thats the fur they want, not the adults. I also draw you to your point "Battering something to death is not my idea of exceptable" In my post I DID say I found that inhumane and unnacceptable.
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Malady
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25-03-2008, 10:05 PM
Originally Posted by Colin View Post
But that's the reason the seals have to be culled. Since man has been on this planet they just isn't enough food to go around anymore.

But that's because of 'man' being greedy, not nature !! Why should THEY have to pay for OUR greedy mistakes

Personally I would like to see every country become self sufficient, and any that are not, for them to be given food parcels which contain contraceptives in them.

Couldn't agree more

Lets be perfectly honest about it, but there are counties that are basically non-stop breeding machines. No wonder there is not enough food to go around.
There are also lots of CountRies in this situation too

I agree tho
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Malady
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25-03-2008, 10:08 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
No they wouldnt, they would breed far more than the extent they do now WITH culling. The Seal numbers are HUGE!!
I watched several Docus once in Australia, narrated by a Seal expert of over 50 years, and the reason they continually breed is because they miss their young, pure and simple. WE take away the babies, the mothers feel 'lost' and breed more ! He has already advised Governments on this and told them that if they reduced the culling, the seal numbers would decline naturally, and he has already proved his point in other areas reagarding seals.
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Borderdawn
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25-03-2008, 10:37 PM
Originally Posted by Malady View Post
I watched several Docus once in Australia, narrated by a Seal expert of over 50 years, and the reason they continually breed is because they miss their young, pure and simple. WE take away the babies, the mothers feel 'lost' and breed more ! He has already advised Governments on this and told them that if they reduced the culling, the seal numbers would decline naturally, and he has already proved his point in other areas reagarding seals.
If its the same guy I am thinking of, didnt he compare the "breeding" with rarer species? thus giving a completely unfair example in regard to increase in breeding numbers?

I think I am right in saying regardless of whether their cubs are killed, lost eaten etc.. all those raised will be weaned by about 2 weeks and then abandoned, and Cows will mate immediately after this. With a gestation of 11mths, a cull of once a year fits directly in line with their natural breeding cycle and proves they do not mate because their babies have been killed, producing young once a year, every year from sexual maturity.
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Malady
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25-03-2008, 10:39 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
If its the same guy I am thinking of, didnt he compare the "breeding" with rarer species? thus giving a completely unfair example in regard to increase in breeding numbers?

I think I am right in saying regardless of whether their cubs are killed, lost eaten etc.. all those raised will be weaned by about 4 weeks and Cows will mate immediately after this. With a gestation of 11mths, a cull of once a year fits directly in line with their natural breeding cycle and proves they do not mate because their babies have been killed, producing young once a year, every year from sexual maturity.
The guy I was watching (his name escapes me, will have to ask the MIL) was not comparing any other species, but dedicated a whole series of docus on the one species for this reason alone.

I still don't agree with it.

Let's face it, the world wasnt overrun with Seals before culling began was it ?
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Borderdawn
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25-03-2008, 10:45 PM
Originally Posted by Malady View Post
The guy I was watching (his name escapes me, will have to ask the MIL) was not comparing any other species, but dedicated a whole series of docus on the one species for this reason alone.

I still don't agree with it.

Let's face it, the world wasnt overrun with Seals before culling began was it ?
Dunno how many there were Malady, but they arent in short supply now either!
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youngstevie
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25-03-2008, 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by Malady View Post
The guy I was watching (his name escapes me, will have to ask the MIL) was not comparing any other species, but dedicated a whole series of docus on the one species for this reason alone.

I still don't agree with it.

Let's face it, the world wasnt overrun with Seals before culling began was it ?
And if we didn't kill whales etc., we would have some natural preditors. I agree they are killed for thier fur, so some person can walk around in a posh coat made of seal, all I'm saying is that we need to go back to being more self sufficent, in some rich countries, food is rotting because they don't distribute. Anyone who thinks Oh! the dolphin is not in that tin of tuna, are fooling themselves if they really believe that they are released, they may not be in that tin, but they end up in someone's dinner plate, same as culled seals end up on someones back. To blame breeding is (in my opinion) a cop out, cull the adults then (humanely) not the young. We are preditors, and sometimes not in the right way.
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Borderdawn
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25-03-2008, 11:09 PM
Originally Posted by youngstevie View Post
And if we didn't kill whales etc., we would have some natural preditors. I agree they are killed for thier fur, so some person can walk around in a posh coat made of seal, all I'm saying is that we need to go back to being more self sufficent, in some rich countries, food is rotting because they don't distribute. Anyone who thinks Oh! the dolphin is not in that tin of tuna, are fooling themselves if they really believe that they are released, they may not be in that tin, but they end up in someone's dinner plate, same as culled seals end up on someones back. To blame breeding is (in my opinion) a cop out, cull the adults then (humanely) not the young. We are preditors, and sometimes not in the right way.
Well considering the Orca (Killer Whale) is the top predator for the Harp seal, and Seals in general, your point doesnt hold much water, because we dont hunt Orca's, never have!! Most Whales are plankton eaters.

Who is blaming breeding? Whats the "cop out?" Nobody said culling Seal pups is to curb their breeding alone. Its for the fur industry first and foremost but does serve to regulate the huge numbers that are bred each year. Its all about management, if they wernt killed for fur, they would be culled due to high numbers anyway.
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youngstevie
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25-03-2008, 11:13 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Well considering the Orca (Killer Whale) is the top predator for the Harp seal, and Seals in general, your point doesnt hold much water, because we dont hunt Orca's, never have!! Most Whales are plankton eaters.

Who is blaming breeding? Whats the "cop out?" Nobody said culling Seal pups is to curb their breeding alone. Its for the fur industry first and foremost but does serve to regulate the huge numbers that are bred each year. Its all about management, if they wernt killed for fur, they would be culled due to high numbers anyway.
As with all of us, we were asked our opinion, and those are mine. I don't agree. I and I say 'I' feel we could handle things differently. I am not debating I am simply against it, as I am all other Blood sport, poaching and killings.
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Malady
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25-03-2008, 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by youngstevie View Post
And if we didn't kill whales etc., we would have some natural preditors. I agree they are killed for thier fur, so some person can walk around in a posh coat made of seal, all I'm saying is that we need to go back to being more self sufficent, in some rich countries, food is rotting because they don't distribute. Anyone who thinks Oh! the dolphin is not in that tin of tuna, are fooling themselves if they really believe that they are released, they may not be in that tin, but they end up in someone's dinner plate, same as culled seals end up on someones back. To blame breeding is (in my opinion) a cop out, cull the adults then (humanely) not the young. We are preditors, and sometimes not in the right way.
Yep, well said, I totally agree. All the planets problems with all animals are down to Man, not them overbreeding !
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