Twist and turn, twist and turn

For what it's worth, my own dog is walked on a soft, static harness.

For what it's worth, I recommended equipment that caused the least discomfort possible for my clients when I was working in the field.

For what it's worth, any equipment I recommended was based on both safety and training considerations that was best suited to the dog

If you can keep your dog off-lead for the rest of it's life, you must have a very good sized parcel of land with your property Unfortunately, not many have.

Could I add to that?

Not all owners are born knowing all about training so their dogs often end up pulling excessively or lunging out excitedly at other dogs. Those owners are not to blame because, let's face it, if they have gone to a trainer to try to sort the problem, they care about their dogs and you cannot blame someone for what they do not know or have experience of.

Of course, in that ideal world ..............

I'm not twisiting or turning anything, you agreed that some of the dog training aids that are deemed acceptable cause pressure which equals pain, what more do I need to say.

Those nasty prong collars have obvious pointy bits which get people up in arms. don't use them either, but it does make me chuckle how people can pat themselves on the back for using a halti which is one of the worst pressure causing head collars available, but oooooooh no, I'd never use one of those nasty prong collars! I suppose people MUST believe the hype!

Gentle leaders are another pressure causing head collar btw, the P@H one is one of the better ones as they don't clamp around the muzzle and lead from the back of the head. Not that I use one, but, as I said, a dog trainer/behaviourist I know with a very good reputation has assessed a few of these devices previously

Would that be one where the head goes down? If so, and I've not seen them, they can actually be worse as they can impede breathing

Anyway, it's been sorta interesting , but it's past my bedtime

So you agree that some head collars are painful, but I'm the one twisting and turning out of answering.

I don't know if I'll have time to catch up tomorrow, got a busy week ahead with work, but why is it that one form of *control* is more acceptable than the other.

The Gencoms do that but I am not sure that they are a lot better than any others. I have had experience of most of them.

rune

If they're fitted wrongly they are fitted wrongly (not that they were designed to cause pain or suffering) - so I don't see why that has anything to do with a device designed to inflict pain in order to work, or why anyone would even try to use that as a justification to *not* ban prong collars.

Yes I think they should be banned
and choke chains too

imo there is a huge difference between a head collar or harness and a prong/choke collar

Used correctly a harness type thing is a managment tool, it lets you have more than one point of contact on a dog so you can steer it more effectivly than a collar alone
BUT imo it is not to train a dog to walk nicely it is a managment tool until you can train the dog
They are not using pain

prongs 'work' quicker than these things because they use pain
therefore imo they should be banned because causing pain to an animal should be illigal

Do you mean this prong collar

or this pinch collar

or this prong collar

All three ^^