Totally agree with this.Good post

Totally and utterly fair enough - I don't think we are going to change each other's minds either

Thanks for the discussion.

You are more than welcome and thank you Kirsty, it's always interesting and rewarding to have a debate with you, it has certainly clarified things for me!!!
It would be boring if we all thought the same all the time!

The trouble is in the world of professional gundog trainers/breeders, money will always be the main priority. Many see their dogs as livestock (note the word many, not all!) and they breed and train gundogs as a living. This is why I think it can be so difficult to find a good gundog trainer, becuase there is such a vast difference between people like me who want a dog as a pet, but want to allow it to fulfill it's original purpose (as a hobby). To the professionals who want the absolute perfect working gundog to work and breed from.

This was the point I was making in my first post. I think it's strange that a show pup run on from a good breeder would fetch the same as a 8 week old pup, where as a gundog pup run on will fetch so much more than the 8 week old equivalent. I can understand there being a difference due to the level of training the run on gundog would have, but a run on show pup (from a good breeder) would also have had a significant amount of input regarding training and socialisation. So why are they sold for the exact same price as an 8 week unsocialised, untrained and more than likely un house trained pup? Not saying breeders should start charging more, but just find it very strange that they don't!
If she paid £1000 for a Spin I think she's been well and truly fleeced! Spins generally go for £700ish. They're certainly no longer a "rare" breed, sadly puppy farmers have realised their potential as popular pets and have already started to churn them out.

As regards to good breeders making no profit, I really do agree with this. A good breeder will always put the dogs welfare first, money second. My friend rang up a Spin breeder asking about the litter she had. She told the breeder a bit about herself and how she worked as a groom at a stable yard. The dog would have 1,000 acres to roam in as she lives on a private coutry estate and the dog would spend all day with her and her Labrador at the stable yard. She then explained that she only had £350 pounds (which was the truth) and asked whether it would be possible to buy a dog from her with this amount of money. The breeder agreed to meet her and after a bit of a vetting allowed her to buy one of the pups for £350 because she knew he was going to an excellent home. That to me is the definition of a good breeder and certainly one that doesn't put money first.

My sister has only ever bought one Spin - about 6-7 years ago I think. She was one of the first people to own Spinone in this country and the other dogs and bitches she has had have been bred by herself or friends in the breed. Her first Spinone was given to her. She also has a Show Champion dog and is considered to be something of an expert in the breed. I used Spins as an example, as I have known some be sold for £1000 - but I don't think I said my sister paid that for hers, as I don't know what she paid. Just thought I had better clear that up

Regarding the second bit of your post above, I wholeheartedly agree, and wish there were more breeders like that It sounds as though that dog will have a wonderful home.

what does a spin look like

It would really depend on so many things. If I wanted a pup from a particular mating and had missed out for example only to be offered one further down the line (for whatever reason) I would consider it. I love training pups and watching them change but I wouldn't miss out on the right pup for the sake of a couple of months as long as it had been socialised properly of course. As for a part trained sheepdog for you at least that would mean that the dog had some interest in sheep whereas if you had bought a pup you wouldn't know for sure until it was older........ No sure about the protection dogs as I have never felt the need to be protected.......... Last person to pick a fight with me kicked my dog very hard in the ribs after he fell over him drunk so I returned the favour and kicked him hard in a place that should only be treated nicely and made him cry, to top it off his mate pushed me over and sol bit him on the backside, clever little merley protection dog

At 9 months old, a bit like this....