Personally I love the part of training from puppyhood - although Connor was 4 months when we got him so was pretty much housetrained which was a huge bonus!

I wouldn't expect to pay more for a pup run on by a breeder - that is more that the pup isn't what they were looking for not that they have particularly spent time to train it as such if that makes sense.

When I had Tassle as a puppy I did LOADS with her.....she picked things up SO fast that we rushed on - she still has a bigger repotoire of trick/moves/behaviours (whatever you call it) than many other dogs I have met (even doing freestyle).BUT......at the age of 3 she had a complete melt down - my fault becasue I pushed her too much - I can see that now. We had to go right back to basics and start again - the next two dogs I had were resuce/rehomes and were older so we could do this - but when I got Siren last year I was SO careful not to push her too much - we did lots of socialising and lots of basic stuff (self control exercises) but I didn't start any serious training till she was bout 6-7 months and I knew she had the mental capacity to cope.

She may have coped with more when she was a pup - but having screwed it up SO much with Tassle I really didn't want to make the same mistake again - Time will tell I guess - she is only 16 months....but so far so good

Haven't got time to answer fully now...but my thoughts are pretty much that I feel uncomfortable about money being made from the sale of part trained dogs, as money must be the main factor in the sale. In a perfect world of course it wouldn't be, but the world isn't rosy and so it all makes me feel very uncomfortable. The dog's welfare at that moment and long term have to be the main priorities. Money always changes that.

I think you probably can do both - but, I felt I used to try to overload my pups with too much too soon, and found I had to then go back and re-train certain exercises when they were a little older. I feel a pup of 5-6 months has a much greater capacity for learning and therefore learns faster and remembers the lesson. Each to their own

But what if the pup that had been run on had had basic obedience training, was already housetrained, fully vaccinated, socialised with a whole sphere of different situations and was pretty much bombproof. Would you think it was acceptable for the breeder to charge more then?

I would.

I totally agree with the sentence I have highlighted. Flame learned loads and loads by the time she was about 9 months old, but then seemed to really tire of any sort of obedience training, and I had to go back and repeat exercises I thought she had already learned. I just wonder if it was too much too soon for her (I started training her from 8 weeks). I have found with Yogi that the older he gets, the more he wants to learn rather than just play ane he picks exercises up more quickly and remembers them.

But for the life of me I cannot see the difference between money being made from the sale of part-trained dogs, pedigree pups, trained dogs, rescue dogs etc etc etc. Money is always involved in one way or another.

this is a valid point I guess.... If I did run a pup on for someone... it would be bombproof.. I wouldnt let it go otherwise.

lots of people struggle to get dogs to behave as my lot do...

that said... thats why I started the dog training club.. so people who bought my pups could have really nice dogs.. but they had to do the work themself..

I still sit on the fence... I may in the future run a pup on for someone... I may not..

ETA: I too have seen the down side of over training pups... so tend not to do to much untill the dog is a bit older,. its very much the same in young horses... slow and steady is best

I think this is where things get quite complicated... eg ok Im a breeder... I run on two dogs for the show ring..
I would put a lot of work into both dogs..
people often feel... they are getting the pup that didnt make the grade when taking on a pup thats been run on, but I see it diff. rather than getting the one that didnt make the grade, I see it as the second best pup in the whole litter..poss the best but it failed to enjoy showing.

I think buying a "started dog" is a great idea for some people. I personally wouldn't do it right now, because I am young and I enjoy all of that stuff...but my parents’ dog is getting old, quick...and I have talked to some breeders who have started dogs for sale. For my parents, they want the companionship; it doesn't matter if they have the dog as a puppy. But between you and me, they were really bad at training the last dog. The dog that my dad had prior to me being born was always regarded as the best dog ever, because he bought her fully trained and she was "so smart". Their dog now, is smart too, but not in the same way...she knows how to get away with naughty things. For them, I think an older dog would be more ideal...they get all the benefits of owning a dog without all the problems in training.

Usually the puppy is kept because the breeder wants to train the puppy in something (we'll go with hunting, since that’s the only started dogs I have seen) and for whatever reasons the puppy isn't doing as well or having as much fun with it after its a year and a half or two years old. The breeder will choose to let the dog go rather than force it to do something that it is not cut out to doing. It's kinda hard to understand if you see your dogs only as pets, but some people are really into the hunting, the training, the trials...and when a dog isn't up to doing it, its quality of life is not going to be ideal, because that’s what the owner enjoys doing and the owner can't connect to a dog that doesn't enjoy it. So they look for a home where the dog can just be a good pet, something that they then excel at because they have already been trained.

For individuals who are older and have "been there, done that" it's a good option. This also might be good for other novice owners who have never had a dog before, particularly when they want a high maintenance breed. Many puppies go to rescues when their owners can't handle them, but had they gone and bought a started dog, they may have a better success rate, thus resulting in less surrendered pets. However, I don't think that you should pay more or less for a started dog unless you specifically ask a breeder to start a dog for you. Every puppy should have a place to be at 8 weeks. If the breeder chooses to keep a puppy, then it is their responsibility to train it…later on, if they want to give the dog to a new home, it should cost the same as the puppies because, in the end, the price is only to guarantee that the new owner is dedicated to taking care of the pet and is financially stable enough to afford one.

IMO