Hi Julie Thanks for that,at the moment I am the only one in the family she will speak to,but its very trying dealing with teenagers angst,I think when they get to a certain age logic and sense go out of the window,cannot wait for when she becomes herself again,she used to be such a joy.Gemini54

That's it exactly ! The forum should be a place whether you are a long time breeder or just wondering about if it may be right for you to come and get advice that will get you coming back to the forum again. If this had been my first thread on the forum I would have been hard pressed to find a reason to return after first few posts !

Now that I can relate to have 3 here cut off from their parents who come to Auntie and Uncle for help and advice lovely they do but gosh it is tiring sometimes.

Julie said:
Exactly, you think your dog is the best specimen and dog in the world, and why wouldnt you? However you would be among those who complain pedigree dogs have inherited faults and defects, because you have absolutely no experience of breeding from dogs with the correct conformation and appearance and character.

Ever wondered why show bred Westies dont have pink feet and bad skin? Pet bred ones do!!

Ever wondered why Yorkies bred from show stock actually look like Yorkies and not weigh 6 times they should like the pet bred ones do?

As I said, "pet" dogs are often sold as such because they are considered not suitable for showing by reputable breeders. Showing is by no means the be all and end all, but it does mean that dogs of a good standard are bred from. Your "pet" may have a mouth like a shovel and be timid and snappy with strangers. You will see no issue with that because she is yours and you love her. But imagine her offspring in a novice home, it can quickly get out of hand. breeding dogs responsibly should be about breeding from the best in EVERY aspect, not just the ones that suit you.

I am telling you the TRUTH. Im LIVING it now, my puppies are 3 weeks old. My bitch has given them everything, Im shocked at her condition, she looks half the dog she was, yet she was among the top Borders in the country a few months ago.


I never said anything was dangerous, so please do not quote things I didnt say. That just causes confusion. You asked for opinions, you got them. Whether you take note or not is your choice, and if you go ahead be prepared you may lose your bitch, her puppies and be left with nothing, but as Ive always said, its OUR choice, we choose to do it, we have to live with any consequences.

I never said you said anything was dangerous I was saying that saying don't ask questions was dangerous. We need to ask questions and all the time we are asking we need to be answered with less judgement IMO.

btw one of the posts that convinced me was when you talked so honestly about your experience, I wouldn't want to put Betty through that and rang my vet straight away to ask about neutering. She will be going in close to Christmas and won't be put through any pregnancies.

You did good sharing your experience it has helped Betty so thank you for doing that. At the end of the day all this was for Betty, I didn't want her to be lonely which was why I was amazed to be called selfish

Its not a case of one rule or some having the right and others don`t, its down to breeding healthy dogs and if you have a pedigree then breeding dogs that actually look like the breed they should be.

I`m going out on a limb here, but my guess is Julies girl is not KC registered, considering the price she paid and the fact the breeder was also someone who bred to make up a family.

Julie has already stated her girl has every conformation fault there is in a Chi, this points to Julies dogs breeder also not being overly concerned about what she was breeding,

Its OK saying her dog is healthy because the vet said so, but with respect the dog is still very young and any inherent problems may still be waiting in the wings to jump out, what happens then, if you carry one passing on health issues to the next generation,

Lets be frank here, if a breeder is breeding dogs with no health tests and little care for conformation them they are not the sort of breeder I would be using as a good example,

You ask what's the difference between that type of breeder and the type like Dawn, ( as an example) is 100 fold, 1) Dawn has been in said breed for many many yrs 2) she can give you the history of ALL previous generations on health and temperament 3) she will have done ALL HEALTH TESTS the breed requires, 4) she probably has had this litter planned for yrs 5) she will have owners waiting, 6) she is breeding healthy dogs that fit the breed standard, and that includes temperament.

Julies .... dog 1) she wants to breed a pet with no history that is NOT to breed standard!!!

Maybe that answers your question.

No one can stop Julie (or anyone for that matter) breeding their dogs........... it up to her in the end,

Thankyou Jackie

Julie said:

You said:
Also saying not to ask the question is dangerous
Which is why I responded to it, it was in a reply to me. no other reason.

Julie, you dont have to have her spayed if you choose not to breed from her. Im as much against neutering for the sake of it as I am breeding for the sake of it. Let her mature, see how you feel down the line.

I didnt call "you" selfish. I said that "we" are, as in people who breed, because its for our benefit, not the dogs. It really is.

I dont doubt for one moment that you want what is best for Betty, I just think that despite us all thinking we have the best dogs in the world, there is a HUGE difference between breeding from dogs with conformational and temperamental faults, which pet owners see as nothing to be worried about, and people who breed and show from more conformationally correct dogs with temperaments who are balanced and stable. Used to being handled by strangers etc.. too at shows.

The vast majority of pedigree dogs I board that have "issues" are very poor specimens of the breed, who's breeders thought it would be "nice" or saw the "££££" and did no homework, research, nor were bothered about "what" they were actually breeding from! (not saying you are money oriented either.) A lot of people know that they "could" but they rarely stop to think if they "should."

Let her grow up, enjoy her, think about her future when she has matured mentally and physically.

I completely understand now you have explained Jackbox. But one comment in particular puzzled me perhaps you can help with that ? I was told Chihuahuas are not a beginner dog to breed, so if I were determined to breed (not from Betty but just wanted to be a breeder) I would then feel I should start with a bigger dog which seems crazy thing to think about from this side of the discussion. Everyone started somewhere I can't believe everyone had to start with a big dog.

Your right everyone has to start somewhere........ lets say "hypothetically" you wished to breed Betty, you would need a mentor, "your breeder" assuming they they are knowledgeable, they would /should if all the ducks are in a line, help you , be on the end of the phone day and night, be there to answer all your questions and be ready to step in if you need them.

Chi`s are not an easy breed to whelp and that why it has been mentioned , they are not for the firs time breeder, but then any bitch of any size can get into trouble, the above goes for anyoen who breeds .

You need experience behind you when you breed ( I bet Dawn had someone on the end of the phone too) to help you and give you guidance.