Betty's breeder as I have stated kept one from each litter not entire litters which is how we got Betty, and we paid £500 for Betty not £1500 ! Our breeder wasn't breeding for profit she was breeding to build her family.

Is it selfish ? never thought wanting to share my life with dogs could be called selfish.

I know dog owning and socialising is hard work, I also believe it's easier in either single dog house holds or multi dog house holds than as we are at the moment in a two dog household.

When we had 3 dogs I could always take one out and train/bond etc with that dog, with two I cannot do that we all have to go together as leaving one alone seems unfair to me.

I do want advice but one member says if I ask questions I shouldn't do it like educating myself about breeding is wrong before I embark on it which seems crazy to me and now I feel as if some members are talking to me like I have no idea whatsoever about dogs.

I have happy well socialised dogs when I have them from puppies, only unsocialised dogs I have ever had were rescues who came with so much baggage we didn't stand a chance with making them calm friendly and confident.


We have time to decide and no decision has been made yet nor will it until Betty is more mature and we have had all her health checks done by the vet.

Do we want to improve the breed ? well we don't want to make it worse but we want to breed for temperament more than looks so if the dogs are not show quality we won't be upset. But I emphasis we are just thinking about it all at the moment no decision will be made for a long time as she is just having her first season and we would if we decided to go ahead want to wait until she was at least 2.

My fear is Mollie will die and leave Betty as a single dog, we have never had a single dog for more than a couple of weeks and I didn't feel it was fair, may have been her grief but Mollie was just not playing at home which seemed sad.


Betty is obviously incorrect according to breed standards and we love her shape so would look for another deer head to breed with her as the more delicate look is more attractive we think. Also being taller she manages stairs easier than the shorter legged variety.


We have no insurance so that isn't even a consideration.

I agree with you on the deer head bit, I know it may not be 'correct' but I think it looks so much more healthy.

Unfortunately, where there are so many dogs looking for homes and being PTS, I just don't agree with breeding...especially at the possible detriment for the bitch. I see you say that you would not want to adopt for many reason though.

Yes main one is we found finding a rescue who would rehome to us meant we had to travel all the way up to Birmingham and we ended up dealing with not the best rescue, very odd set up that was eventually closed down for cruelty themselves !!

I think if you have the ideal home with private garden no neighbours it is easier to get a rescue dog that will suit you, we ended up with a very dearly loved dog that had so many problems he nearly bankrupted us and kept me indoors to the detriment of our other dog for 8 years.

I really lost heart with rescues after that.

Betty is our first none rescue dog and the difference in owning her is amazing, we have put the time and effort into socialising and training at an early age and our motivation for wanting a small family of like minded Chihuahuas has been described as selfish but it's more for her than us, we want her to have company of friendly dogs that she can play with and who won't make her life any more difficult.

No doubt about it Mollie loved Duncan but he held her back in so many ways it was unreal. It's only since he died she has come out of her shell and we suddenly realised what a social dog she is, she comes alive in the company of other dogs and people and loves her walks (short but with loads of dogs and people for her to meet).

Betty is our priority in all this, she loves playing at home with Mollie but Mollie is old and won't be here for her forever.

I don't think it's selfish but I'd buy rather than breed and you can do that at anytime, you don't have to wait for health tests or for her to be old enough to breed, you can do it whenever you choose.

Julie, you say you have no insurance, in which case please do not risk it with Betty. My first Griffon needed a C-section and there was no such thing as pet insurance in those days. My then vet was a family friend and he only ever charged me nominal sums but even so her C-section cost what was then a lot of money.

It changed her from a loving little girl into someone who hated me, hated my children [then aged 8 and 10 so not little children], and who loathed her three puppies. I had to hold her in my arms like a baby to let each one of her three puppies nurse, and in the end had to hand rear all three.

She used to be the best of friends with my second Griffon bitch, who I had on breeding terms. They were inseparable and slept cuddled up together, until the second one had pups [three, but one died after 36 hours], then really started on me and my children.

Not on my other girl or her pups, just mainly on me.

But I persevered - never, of course, breeding from her again, but treating her as a brain-damaged dog, because something had turned her from the loving girl she had been. Luckily none of her three puppies ever took after her "after" persona, they were all as loving as she was before she had to have the C-section. The only one of my Griffons who ever needed one, all others delivered naturally albeit with a bit of help from me.

In the end a couple who ran a private first-class nursing home, and who already had one small dog [a poodle cross] who the people in the nursing home adored, contacted me asking if I had an older dog I could possibly part with. They came over with their poodle cross - a spayed bitch - and both she and my Griff bonded within seconds.

So I bade farewell to her and heard weekly via telephone calls [and photographs sent by snail mail as that was all there was then] how happy she was and how much all the people in their nursing home loved her.

But those three puppies that she had - I kept the little girl and sold the two boys [I had a waiting list from then until two Christmases go come] - ended up costing me a fortune.

And there was absolutely no indication before mating her to a very gentle and top quality stud dog, that she would turn as she did. The only thing my vet could come up with was the fact that she had needed a C-section.

Please do not risk your Betty just because you want more Chi's. I bred for health and quality, not for show or companionship for me, most being sold as pet only, not for breeding or for show, although most of my pups were top show quality and the few that my mentor said should be shown, went on to do very well in the show ring.

That's good point trouble as we don't know how long we will have Mollie and wouldn't want to inflict more puppies on her so Betty may be too old or too young when Mollie goes which I hadn't thought about when thinking about all this.

Good points from Malka too I didn't realise temperament could change if we bred from Betty, we were assuming she would be our loving girl even after puppies.

A lot to think about.

Hi There is a brillant book from that friendly site called The Bitch,it was my bible when we thought about puppies even to making a simple whelping box.Gemini54

Sorry Julie, but if you are NOT tryng to improve the breed, then you should not be breeding. You are being selfish breeding because you want more dogs. You want a"family"of dogs, that may or may not work, what happens if two bitches fall out & stay that way forever, you will have to keep them separately forever ?

If you have a dog puppy(ies)are you aware that they can sire puppies before the age of 6 months ? Are you intending to neuter them all before the dog reches puberty with all the health problems that can entail ?

As for your "breeder"Are you trying to tell me that she lost money on each & every litter ? Did her bitches have to have C sections every time ? She obviously wasn't breeding to the breed standard & even at £500 a puppy she will not have lost any money on the actual litter.

No doubt you will do whatever you want to do with your bitch & I do hope that having a litter doesn't change her or cost her her life.

You never replied re your vet being knowledgeable about Chihuahuas, so I presume they are not

I have no idea about my vet I will be asking him, until I do I can't answer.

I had been given some great advice and will be taking it but I have to say calling members who simply ask questions selfish and carrying on like you are could push some people into a position where they ignore the good advice and do what they want just to prove you wrong.

I don't have my breeders bank account to hand so have no idea how much or little she makes per litter, she has had no problems and no c sections needed and her pups may not be show quality but are very healthy happy dogs, which to me as a pet owner means more than conformation or what anyone else thinks is the right look for a dog.


Also yes I will do what I like and if you had read the entire thread you would know I had not decided either way but Malka and Trouble were leading me to think buying a pup when the time came to increase our family would be best. Your following post just put me off bothering to ever ask a question again. Not quite what I imagined this part of the of the forum should be doing. Luckily as a long term member I know your heart is probably in the right place but how you answer questions here is no help to anyone who may or may not be deciding to breed.

Please Julie, do not do it. I know the heartbreak I and my children went through when my first Griffon had to have a C-section, and how she turned on not just us but her own puppies.

And I know the heartbreak I felt when I had no choice but to eventually part with her when a wonderful new home turned up.

I still sometimes wonder how I could have parted with her - she was, after all, my very first Griffon and I and my children adored her. And even though I know she had a wonderful life after she left us, I still feel guilty about it.

Please do not risk your little Betty - the risk of a C-section and possible repercussions might very well leave you with a Betty who was like my first, very much loved Griffon. A beloved dog who changed into a dog both my children and I were terrified to let her near us.