I never said that please stop making something out of comments that arent there.

Dont think anyone said there were nice ones. I said there were meant to be worse ones than others and when fitted incorrectly they will obviously be much worse. It is something emphasised by those who use them at the club. They have tons of spare links to accommodate for changes in neck size no matter how slight. I said that because it sounds like an extreme reaction for the poor dog who I feel sorry for and must not have been a nice thing for C&D to find.

Not saying its right, not really sure why i bothered to post anything about it. I knew I shouldnt bother posting about prongs all too often things in this forum are taken in part and out of context.

Unfortunately, even the very well fitted ones pinch all around the neck when the lead is even slightly taught. It's what they are designed to do. The more the tension, the worse the pinch.

Horrible piece of kit as is a choke chain which, of course, does what it says on the tin. Basically, no more nor less than a metal noose.

That wasn't directed just at you, and I don't think I took it out of context. Please do not take it as a personal insult.

I work at a trainers part time, and see far more of these then I'd like, so I'm probably sensitised to the issue. I also do a great deal work with rescues, and they can do so much harm.

That said, I agree that some people will use them regardless, and in that case they need to fit well. It's just a shame that they can't be totally banned. Even if they fit well, they are designed to cause pain, and that isn't right.

Agreed. Sheer laziness. Its unfortunate because the amount of time some of the people spend on their dogs at the club who then use a prong to have them walk to heel I just don't understand it.

actually the Sig Sauer pistol is pretty cute

I would ban them, I see no need to use them.

There is one at the training club I attend which is passed around in the puppy class for people to see and feel. I have put it on my upper arm and it hurts, it really does. One of the trainers told us a colleague of his is Polish and they use them routinely where he is from, but they sharpen them first.

that is disgusting!

Absolutely. I completely agree that they should be banned. Along with choke chains, electric shock collars etc as well.

The people who do use them just lack the brains to find better alternatives to actually train their dogs, rather than use harsh "training" methods such as prong collars and the likes.

I hate the things and I have absolutely no respect for the people who use them either.

Er, they are all nasty things and why people would choose to use them on their pets is beyond me.