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Location: South East UK
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 27,437
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21-10-2010, 07:19 PM
Originally Posted by spot 
Originally Posted by spot
But thats just the problem, increasing unemployment does impact on other sectors. Those companies who are doing well are doing well because people are spending or in the finance sector saving. People will not have the income to either save or spend its like the ripple effect and all sectors will eventually be affected. The big finance houses maybe doing well but these are multinational companies who's profits are often not ploughed into this country but sent elsewhere or passed on to their very rich share holders. If the going gets tough here they will simply pull out and set up shop elsewhere – thus creating more unemployment.
If that one happens, then God help us all, we won't be worrying just about unemployment I can assure you of that!
You're talking as if we ARE going to get a double dip - I don't think we will, that's my opinion, we have actually come through a recession (apparently!) These changes are to dispense with our deficit, or at the very least, to help the situation out, all that interest, it could only get worse if something didn't happen now. What would YOU suggest they do then??? Carry on handing it out, handing it out, borrow more, oh yes, we can carry on like that for years..... not!
Im sure many of us would worry about a lot of things but that doesnt answer the actual scenario I have put
Yes our manufacturing industry is now dead and buried quite frankly – but what has taken over from it? And who will lose out because of the fear of unemployment or in fact real unemployment? People as has been said stop holidaying, who else losses out on that – the tourist industry! So a lot of empty privately run hotels who now no longer need their staff – see where this is going?
Sweeping slash and burn policies such as these lead to the very very real collateral fear driven economic downturn – in other words everyone is fearful of redundancy and unemployment and therefore believe it will happen to them – thus stop spending thus creating a down turn in the economy which can lead to real depression.
I would like to have a little "cyber bet" with you on that one, by means of dragging this thread back up in 4 years' time!!! The stock market took this onboard favourably last night, that says it all for me!
The stock market is not necessarily a good indication of what is good for the economy just what is good for the markets. Whats the economic theory behind that?
Really?? I always thought it did? You'd be happy for it to crash then?? I wouldn't!
It maybe the governments policy to rise unemployment to such a high level that it brings inflation very low and thus creating an economic upturn but thats a dangerous game to play which has in the past led to stagnation of the economy.
As for the welfare being capped (Im sorry I thought you had wholeheartedly agreed with Jols regarding stopping sick pay for all) I think they should be capped to a point but disagree with stopping benefits or sick pay for people who are to ill to work.I'm sorry???? I said sick pay SHOULD be paid to everybody who is sick or cannot work????!!!! I did!!!
Now come on, that's NOT going to happen, the real GENUIINE sick people, disabled people will get their benefits, but hopefully, they can get to grip with the scroungers and we all know they're out there, we're not daft!
Again sorry I though you wholeheartedly agreed with jols saying that THEY should not be paid sick pay,.
As above, if you're sick, you're sick, you can't work you should get paid, BUT, what I said was, I want to get all those lazy b*ggers up off their a*ses who have never held a job down in their entire lives and don't intend to, coz I'm sick to death of paying for them to go on holiday, have a nice house and get everything free that we have to PAY for! Including my council tax that only gets my bin emptied each week coz we don't have kids, I never see a policeman, my house hasn't caught fire, I don't use the library, and yet I pay £170 each and every month for the priveledge! They even get let off that No, I want changes, BIG changes, the bigger the better!
But we're talking about people working in the public sector, nurses, doctors prison offices etc etc, why are you paying them to go on holiday, what do they get free that you have to pay for?
I was talking about the benefit scroungers there, I don't care what the council workers do with their wages, it's up to them. People who are claiming benefit, and who are CAPABLE of working, those are the people I'm paying for so that they get just about everything free in life that I have to pay for and sometimes couldn't afford, such as council tax, prescriptions, etc. and holidays, well, what are those when you are unable to claim benefit and have hit hard times!
As council are being targetted you will probably see less policemen, bin emptying will go to once every 2 weeks, meals on wheels will disappear, sheltered housing will be very limited. Many people do use the library, especially these days to use the internet to get a job, would you get rid of libraries?
People who want to get a job, go down the job centre, or pick up the paper, or have a puter at home to access the internet or have friends they can call on to use theirs. I don't think I'll see less policemen, I think they would stop the overtime before letting staff go quite honestly. Who said meals on wheels will disappear, is that fact? Sheltered housing is already limited, when it's full up, they put them in other rental accommodation and pay for it. It's too full up with 16 year olds who have had kids too early imo!
I cannot believe that just because YOUR house has not caught fire that you want the fire service to be cut or heaven forbid privatised
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Location: God's Own County
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,584
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21-10-2010, 09:45 PM
Originally Posted by jols
and yes one of our managers was murdered last year in a robbery that went wrong.
I had ex colleagues who were/are assaulted on a weekly basis(not the same colleagues every week)
A 23 year old colleague was raped & murdered just doing her job & not a robbery etc that went wrong-she died because of the job she did. I've been punched in & out of the office, had all the tyres slashed on my car, had my car broken into... I could go on not robberies simply because of the job I did.
I wonder how many lives will be when fire fighters, paramedics etc etc are not available because they have been"made redundant"
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Location: Usually in a muddy field somewhere
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 20,145
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21-10-2010, 09:46 PM
Originally Posted by spot
As council are being targetted you will probably see less policemen, bin emptying will go to once every 2 weeks, meals on wheels will disappear, sheltered housing will be very limited. Many people do use the library, especially these days to use the internet to get a job, would you get rid of libraries?
I cannot believe that just because YOUR house has not caught fire that you want the fire service to be cut or heaven forbid privatised
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Location: Great Britain
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 183
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21-10-2010, 10:52 PM
Originally Posted by jols
Only give it up if its spoiling their life.
Nobody wants to listen to people moaning about their job all day long. Life should be about quality of life.
AND WHY WOULD SOMEONE WANT TO DO A JOB THEY ARE MOANING ABOUT ALL DAY LONG.sorry bout caps not shouting
Yes they get a very bad press and the cases they do help are not reported. They are working with hardly any budget to help these children. I know they must go home feeling very helpless for the poor children of this country. Social service need to be paramount in the budgets after all they are helping our next generation!!!!
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Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 212
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22-10-2010, 07:26 AM
Originally Posted by JoedeeUK
So you are a manager earning less that SSP rates ??? must be a sweat shop type employer that you work for.
I had ex colleagues who were/are assaulted on a weekly basis(not the same colleagues every week)
A 23 year old colleague was raped & murdered just doing her job & not a robbery etc that went wrong-she died because of the job she did. I've been punched in & out of the office, had all the tyres slashed on my car, had my car broken into... I could go on not robberies simply because of the job I did.
I wonder how many lives will be when fire fighters, paramedics etc etc are not available because they have been"made redundant"
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Location: Derbyshire.....the walking county
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,982
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22-10-2010, 09:20 AM
Originally Posted by jols
Long term sick....take out an insurance.
I mean the people who take several weeks off a year with a belly ache or flu and get paid.
Child benefit scrap it and yes I have a child.
Mainly private health insurance would be just the same as the NHS if everyone had it.
$400 just for an ambulance, up front
and you cant claim it back!The majority couldn't afford this insurance.
Child benefit was introduced for mothers to afford the essential things for the children because the father would spend his pay on booze.
Not much of a difference there today really. The low paid rely on this money so why scrap it?
If you hadnt noticed.....you pay a National Insurance for your health service amongst other things so why pay out for another one!!!
Oh sorry you wouldn't pay it as you earn less than the required amount of earnings to qualify!
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Location: Romford, uk
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,265
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22-10-2010, 09:46 AM
Originally Posted by hectorsmum
Child benefit was introduced for mothers to afford the essential things for the children because the father would spend his pay on booze.
Not much of a difference there today really. The low paid rely on this money so why scrap it?
Family allowance was introduced after the war and had damn all to do with feckless fathers, lack of a father might have been a bigger issue due to the war.
After World War II, bringing up several children was encouraged to restore the birth rate.
And in 1945 the Family Allowance was introduced provide benefit for second and subsequent children.
What about the first-borns?
In 1975, then Labour social affairs secretary Barbara Castle put forward the Child Benefit Act proposing additional benefit for the first child.
And between 1977 and 1979, child benefit replaced the Family Allowance and Child Tax Allowance.
Child benefit is for the benefit of the child, fathers can claim it instead of the mother and it has an almost 100% take up rate.
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Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 212
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22-10-2010, 10:00 AM
i did pay it all for 25 years before i had my son, then i felt my son was important to look after so i no longer work full time.
and before you ask we dont claim benefits both work in low paid jobs [but not low enough ha ha]
nearly paid for the house go on hols twice a year and have all mod cons.................it is all about budgeting your money...............
IM FED UP WITH THIS THREAD NOW SO I WILL NOT BE REPLYING ANYMORE......BUT STILL BE POPPING IN FOR A READ.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,724
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22-10-2010, 10:30 AM
Sorry Helena but I figured our original post was getting rather complicated to read and starting to look like the flag of the united nations.
I think there is a chance of a double dip but hope you are right and I am wrong. I have never said that nothing should be done.
My original question was where is the growth going to come from. Something I dont see happening with these measures.
Yes measures needed to be taken but not in such a rushed manner or seemingly without any economic based backup. I think a lot of people think politicians, including the chancellor, are economic experts not modern history experts. There will be further cuts – there has to be to be.
Really?? I always thought it did? You'd be happy for it to crash then?? I wouldn't!
Sometimes is is sometimes it isnt. Today its dropping like a stone so in this case I hope it isnt.
Hell no we certainly do not want a crash, where on earth did I say that!
Now come on, that's NOT going to happen, the real GENUIINE sick people, disabled people will get their benefits, but hopefully, they can get to grip with the scroungers and we all know they're out there, we're not daft!
Isn't it? How can you be sure? The latest cuts are not just aimed at those who are deemed able to work under the new rules but also those who can work occasionally etc their benefits will be cut entirely after a year, no JSA either. So if you are a carer to someone disabled you are going to lose an awful lot of support financially and in other ways as services are cut.
People who want to get a job, go down the job centre, or pick up the paper, or have a puter at home to access the internet or have friends they can call on to use theirs. I don't think I'll see less policemen, I think they would stop the overtime before letting staff go quite honestly. Who said meals on wheels will disappear, is that fact? Sheltered housing is already limited, when it's full up, they put them in other rental accommodation and pay for it. It's too full up with 16 year olds who have had kids too early imo!
Do they? Every single one of them? I know when I was made redundant I would of sold my computer if it meant my dogs got to eat. Not everyone is computer savvy – hell my brother is only just getting used to e-mail!
Less over time will mean less police on the streets though, some of those jobs in the public sector may very well include those in the police force some experts believe over a 18,000 jobs will have to go, and as the amount of prison spaces is to be cut – god help us. The targeting of our military personal (how would you feel if one minute you are fighting in Afghanistan the next minute your told you are no longer needed and made redundant?
Yes sheltered housing is already limited – and its going to get worse. Would you really want your elderly relatives living in rented accommodation with no support? All services are going to be cut.
I don't want the fire service to be cut, Inever said that, all I said is I begrudge having to find my £170 a month for the benefit I actually get from it, which is actually having my bins emptied each week, when I could go down the tip with it in the car! It's a lot of money out of my budget I could do without it, but hey ho, nobody's gonna help us with that coz we work!
But you begrudge paying for the fire service. You are privileged to have a car and be able to drive – I cant by the way so Im not sure how I should get my rubbish to the tip, or should only those who cannot get down the tip who pay for the privilege of having their bins emptied? My elderly parents, disabled, those out of work who cant afford a car? How many times do you want your bins emptying? Ours are currently emptied every 2 weeks. How are the police, fire service, sheltered housing to be paid for?
I understand your frustration at those that are sponging off the system but this thread is about the cuts in services to some of the most vulnerable people in society.
Someone else said its about the bigger picture and I believe that, its not about how its going to affect me its about how its going to affect our economy and society. Macro and micro economics.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,724
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22-10-2010, 10:31 AM
Originally Posted by Lucky Star
The local libraries are one resource I would NOT want to see the back of. Many people use our local library and they would really feel its loss.
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