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Agility-mongrel
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17-03-2008, 08:09 PM

Older dog bullying younger dog - Advice please!

Hi, I have a 4 1/2 year old (approx) crossbreed, Dan, and a 6 month old Lurcher (Collie X) called Myrtle (no laughing, please! ). Dan is quite a dominant dog, and I believe not adequately socialised before we got him, so when we were consideing another dog, we made sure we got a confident, dog-savvy puppy. It did take him a while to get used to her (he would tell her off for accidentally touching his paw!) but after a month or so they were playing together and he would evenlet her eat out of his food bowl at the same time as him! (not that I encouraged this!).
However, yesterday I bought home two knuckle bones - one each and Dan proceeded to snarl at her, then pin her down with his teeth around her muzzle. She squealed a couple of times and as I was worried, I told him off and removed both the bones. Since then, if she so much as looks at his bed, he snarls at her. She has taken to curling up in a corner of the living room where he can't see her and is afraid to eat her dinner. Should I have just left them to it? I don't think he'd do her any physical harm, but I don't want her to be terrified of him. I did wonder if it was to do with her age and perhaps she was trying to assert herself a bit more and he was putting her back in her place. Can anyone advise me about the best way to handle this please as I do not want to get it wrong!
Thanks in advance! Jo, Dan and Myrtle
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Pita
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17-03-2008, 09:27 PM
Would say keep the bones or any other treat out of the way, ignore both of them and wait for matters to calm down I'm pretty sure they will soon as it is not usual for the males to continue any ill feeling.
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dollyknockers
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17-03-2008, 09:35 PM
I had that problem for a while with Lady and Skye ,Over toys ,Skye would decide all toys belong to her and Beau ,And lady was not allowed them , They would growl and snarl even snap at one another ,And Lady would sit in one corner and Skye in another ,I just removed all the toys and ignored both of them after about an hour they were curled up on sofa again happpy as two peas in a pod xxdk
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Agility-mongrel
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17-03-2008, 09:46 PM
Thanks for the advice. Dan isn't an aggressive dog, but he does have issues with fear aggression (only posturing and noise) and I really wanted to make sure that I wasn't inadvertantly creating a fear aggressive dog out of Myrtle! I will ignore rather than chastise and for everyones peace of mind, continue to remove the bones if they are going to be left unsupervised for 10 seconds or more!
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Pita
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18-03-2008, 06:50 AM
Personaly I would not give bones at all but you can see the situation and if you think it is not causing any problem then carry on as you are.
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catrinsparkles
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18-03-2008, 08:40 AM
Originally Posted by Pita View Post
Personally I would not give bones at all but you can see the situation and if you think it is not causing any problem then carry on as you are.
I agree with Pita i would keep high value things, such as bones , out of the equation for a while. I don't think you should have left them to it, but wouldn't necessarily tell Dan off for it as you won't be able to stop him like that if you are not there.

Not sure if you do already, but maybe you shouldn't leave them alone together when you aren't there. Separating them would give both of them a rest from each other and you would know that they are both safe. As you say, your pup is moving towards adolescence now so will have to get used to being put in her place by adult dogs, but you don't want to let a telling off get out of control while you are not there.

Hopefully things will smooth out again soon.
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Agility-mongrel
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18-03-2008, 07:33 PM
They are, at this very moment, gnawing separate bones in the same room. They are still fine together outside, and inside if there are no bones about! The issue does seem to be just about the bones - he wants themall to himself - but she's on the sofa with me with her bone and he's in his bed with his. I'll take themaway again after an hour or so though. They do spend a lot of time together, but at night she is crated and he has the run of the living room, which her crate is in. They are left unsupervised (without high-value things such as bones!) but my husband is at home all day and checks on them regularly.
Another issue we have with her though is that she seems to suffer from separation anxiety when separated from him - couldn't give a hoot about us, but I hopefully as she gets older she'll be a bit better.
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Colin
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18-03-2008, 07:50 PM
How close were the dogs to each other when you first gave them the bones?

One of the biggest mistakes people make when giving out high value treats such as bones is that they are not allowing enough space between their dogs.

If you had a pair of dogs that get along really well and show no aggression to each other then that's one thing, but under circumstances like yours then I would suggest that you put the bones as far away from each other or in different rooms, and then make your dogs earn the bones by doing some short training sessions so they know that that have earnt it.
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Agility-mongrel
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18-03-2008, 07:57 PM
I must admit that I gave Dan his bone and he took it to his bed as he always has. I gave Myrtle hers in the same room, but at the other end which was obviously too close! I think I over estimated how well it was going - when she had a toy he wanted, he'd look at her and wag and not intimidate her at all. I've taken the bones awaynow (much to his disgust!) and she's repaid my concern by chewing up the running orders for this weekends agility comp!
You've gotta love 'em!

Edited to add: We do follow the principle that they have to do something in order to get what they want, be it a simple sit and wait or something else.
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catrinsparkles
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19-03-2008, 09:09 AM
I was interested to see that you had the pup on the sofa with her bone and the older dog on the floor with his.

Just another thought to add to the equation..... out of two dogs, one will become higher ranking than the other one and tiffs usually happen when the balance becomes upset. As the pup is younger i would have thought she would naturally be the lower ranking one, but by giving her the most comfy spot, with a prized possesion in a place higher than the older dog you seem to be putting her in a higer ranking place.

If there are tiffs between dogs i have read that you should consider the dogs, and which one you feel is higher ranking (and in this case i would say it should be the mature dog) and then treat them as such. Feed the leader just before the other one, etc etc, some people will think it sounds cruel but it has proved to be very stressfull and unsetteling for adog to force them into a higher rank than they wish to accept or know is their place - if you see what i mean.

If you reinforce that Dan is higher ranking,(only in nice subtle ways liek the food and who you greet first etc), maybe they will settle into their roles happily.
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