show/working dogs?

my butcher was saying to me a few weeks back that he owned a big gsd,and that at 16 he had to have him pts for many health problems 2 years ago,
well i was talking dogs with him a couple weeks ago and he was saying time has come for him to get another gsd,and that he didnt want a show bred dog,he wanted a working bred dog,and knows a man that breeds dogs for the police and said he can have one of them,then it got me thinking,

if all dogs are bred to kc standards then why are show and working dogs diffrent,as he was saying,that the show dogs are closely bred for looks,that the ability to work is lost,is he right?
im to let him know of your thoughts on this,also my sister in kansas asked me to look for a german shepard for the local sheriffs department,in her wee town,so i went online and for weeks i looked at diffrent gsds and in the end i emailed a kennel who bred both show and working dogs and passed the information to her i must admit i know not alot at all bout gsd,i dont even know breed standard,so why she asked me im puzzled.

Firstly not all dogs are bred to breed standard and secondly the breed standard is open to interpretation!
Take the wording in the Poodle breed standard for the Neck "Well proportioned, of good length" what does that mean exactly? Without actual dimensions or proportions it would be impossible for everyone to come up with the same answer!
Becky

I always though tthe police breed their own puppies, this way they know the temperament of the stock they like to use. Is `nt temperament the most important thing in a working police/surcurity dog//

I know their are 2types of shephards, German or English lines, and from what I understand it is the German lines which are the more well balanced dogs (please dont shoot me down if I am wrong on this) any shephard experts , feel free to correct me!! I know each have their enthusiasts,

A well balanced Shephard, bred from good lines, should have enough natural instinct to "work" . buying a dog from someone who breeds just for "pray drive" seems a little fool hardy to me.

This is an interesting subject , I await any expert opinions on this....working or show lines comes into it , if you are going for a working gundog, but if I was after something from the "working group, i.e Rotti/Shephard/Dobe, I think i would be looking for a well ajusted pup, from well ajusted parents. As a police/ sucurity dog should have an inpeccable temperament, where as from what you see on some of these sites that advertize "working dogs" all they seem to promote is the pray drive and bites of the dogs.

The Police havent been too successful from what i can gather, however yes they do breed their own.

Working bred dogs are lighter framed, (from my experience) my friend has one, German bred which he does working trials with, its a smart dog but incredibly "switched on" a bit of a handful and very sharp in its reactions.
dawn.

Well if he buys a dog with German inport lines it will be bred for both as in Germany you can not show a GSD at anything but the smallest of shows without a schutshund qualification. My worry at the moment is that the majority of GSDs especially on the German side are more hyper & less suitable for the pet person who is looking for a couch potato who as long as they have a good walk are content to lounge around the rest of the time, Now they are more like a lot of working collies great if kept well stimulated mentally at all times but not so easy to fit into a busy family life as they used to be. Mind I still would not be without one.

We have two GSD's. One pure english lines and one half German half english.

The English one is a total clown but could never work seriously. She would however make a fantastic pet for the less experienced as she is totally biddable. The German x english has more of an edge but is a powerful and fantastic working dog. I honestly think it depends on what people want out of the dog.

P.S - both ours are KC reg but couldn't go into a ring as they are long coats.

Some police forces breed their own dogs and do it with great success. My own force buy dogs from other police forces and private breeders.
The most successful working dogs that are being imported in to the uk just now for police work are from dutch working lines, from KNPV kennels. The size and looks of the dog is not as important as the working ability. This is seen easier in the Malinios with a wide range of looks, some alomost un recognisable as a Mal.
If your butcher is getting a working bred GSD from a breeder who supplies the police I would question the the dog/breeder as the good working stock dogs that are right for the police are hard to come by in this counrtry and are in great demand.
To the other comments yes the police require a well balanced high drive, prey/defence animal which is sociable and confident.
But just like show dogs the differences between what individual police forces want as an ideal dog is hugh depending on local needs. They all have to be licenced to the same standard but that can be left open to interpertation by the individual

All very interesting reading, I knew one was more well balenced than the other, but was not sure which way round it was...... also did not know you could`nt show long haired!!

With so many dubious breeders around, one would hope temperament comes to the forfront of choosing a dog, whether it be for gaurding or pet.

I know people who breed Rotties, some breed wonderful well balenced dogs..... but i also know a family who breed dubious dogs, they class them as working/gaurd dogs...... these dogs would rip your throat out given a chance , to these people that is what makes a good gaurd dog i hasten to add , it is not the dogs fault they are they way they are, they are kept on chains, bringing the gaurding instinct to boiling point, they then sell the pups on, some go to pet homes as good gaurd dogs, with high pray drive , a well balanced show/pet bred dog, whose protective instinct will come to the surface if needed would be a better bet . if you are just looking for a pet, who will do his job if needed.

as the butcher for most of the towns clubs,and pubs and has been for many a year i understand he knows lots of people,and the pup he has bought came from the police breeder,he has been waiting on him for ages so i know he knows were it has came from and i doubt he be bothered with a breeder that knows not alot,he knows alot about his chosen breed,the pup will be a pet/working dog.thats what he has told me,im very intrested in this subject of breeding/show and the diffrences so i thought it would make a good post,


i like jackbox didnt know you couldnt show long coated gsd,so if some one will enlighten me id like to learn more.

and are all show dogs so diffrent from there working colleges as so to put it?

My very good friend is a police dog instructor and has always had working line German Shepherds - many from Stuart Nye's kennels. They are bred for working ability and import dogs from dutch lines. I know some forces breed their own dogs - but many still take in donations from the public and buy pups from private breeders. Most of these type of GSDs would be unsuitable for the average family, as they can be rather dominant and a bit of a handful for the average person. My own longcoat GSD is bred out of obedience lines and is very laid back and makes a great companion.

Regarding the whole working/show stock difference - this is no more apparent than in border collies. I own ISDS registered working type border collies - they are highly intelligent, energetic without being manic and in my experience have an on/off switch. Totally switched on when working but are able to switch off when work is done. I have never owned a show border collie, and as I am training my dogs for work and trials, I would never risk owning one - as their working ability has been bred out for years now. I am not suggesting that no show bred collie can work, but I have serious doubts as to whether they would have the natural herding instinct which is inherent in good working stock. The same can probably be said for the english springer spaniel.

Interesting discussion