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CaroleC
Dogsey Senior
CaroleC is offline  
Location: Stoke on Trent, UK
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 939
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26-08-2016, 10:48 PM
That is rather a glib statement 'Swiftie', and I'm betting that you have never trained a scenthound to competition level! General interest internet articles, (which are really aimed at the pet owning public), doesn't match the level of practical experience that you will find on this site. I think you would be embarrassed if you knew the credentials of some of the people that you have tried to lecture to.
Why not try challenging some of your own beliefs by following some of the universally rated US trainers, like Jean Donaldson, or Patricia McConnell, to name but two. Move beyond your own breed, and get some practical knowledge of some different breeds and their characteristics, rather than regurgitating from secondary sources. The strange thing about dog training is that the longer you do it, the more you realise that you don't have all the answers, - even the top trainers attend courses, don't you know?
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Swifty
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Location: El Paso, Texas
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 52
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27-08-2016, 12:30 AM
You are actually making the claim that a scenthound learns to follow a trail by being fed bits of kibble?

Seriously that is hilarious..............

In fact I have one dog that will not eat anything, not even beef while working the field, as she has no time for treats as the thrill of the chase is all she needs and it gets her so riled up that food is of no interest, unless it is running

The point is that once your dog learns that pleasing you gets them more of what they really want, then they learn best. If you teach them that what they want is food, all you have is a chowhound, and as much as you may not want to admit it, bringing a pocketful of liver treats everywhere is just not possible, nor does it make you smell very nice.
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landseer
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Location: Canada
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27-08-2016, 02:20 AM
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
I suggest you look at the relatively recent scientific studies regarding training to start to understand the basics of why many trainers now incorporate treats within their training protocols.
Recent yep, dogs have been with man loyally for some 40,000 years - I'm sure they didn't have a treat bag hanging off their sides...

45 years of dog ownership, worked with hundreds of strays and such over the years, other peoples dogs. Never used one treat. And never mean to a dog.

You can either give a treat or be the treat. Dogs want that reward. You want the dog to do for the treat - I want the dog to do it for me.
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Ms. M
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Location: Central Luzon, Philippines
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27-08-2016, 03:02 AM
I agree with you. I give him dog food only for his training.
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LykaRane
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27-08-2016, 06:21 AM
If you properly phase treats out of training they're an amazing tool, especially for dogs like mine who are incredibly food-motivated. My Sky will do anything to get even a low-value treat, but my praise doesn't mean much to him unless he's in the mood for it. The trick is, after the dog has associated the behavior with getting treats, to start only treating them every few times, always at random, and slowly do it less and less. That way they learn that there's a chance they'll get the reward. It becomes like a slot machine--they keep doing it just in case this time they get the treat. As long as you be sure to treat them every once in a while (and I mean very rarely once it's established--if you take sit as an example, my dog had it down pretty flawlessly within about 3 days of coming home and in the year and a half since I've treated him for it no more than 2 or 3 times) it'll stay fresh and strong.

Dogs learn by association. They learn that if they put their butt on the floor when they hear the sound 'sit' the immediate consequence is getting what they want, so they keep doing it to get what they want. If what they want is a treat, that's the most effective thing to use. Some dogs can be rewarded purely with praise, because that's what they want from you, and it is possible to train a dog with just praise, but for most dogs it'll go much slower and take a lot more effort to make it stick.
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Trouble
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Location: Romford, uk
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27-08-2016, 07:03 AM
I don't need to be told how to train my dogs, I manage just fine following my instincts and adjusting my methods to suit individuals.
There is no one size fits all.
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tumbleweed
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Location: East sussex
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,480
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27-08-2016, 08:12 AM
What we tend to forget is that dogs in Texas are different from dogs all over the world. The ones Swiftie is on about are born with the knowledge on how to obey and do so from birth they are that intelligent. Of course therefore it is easy to have such a vast knowledge on dog training as the dogs almost train themselves.

i have noticed Swiftie has not mentioned what qualifications in dog obedience she has nor who trained her in the first place.

OOPS I forgot why have not the greatest dog show on earth Crufts invited her to demonstrate her dog training skill? A sad oversight for sure as all her knowledge would be on show for the world to see and learn from.

Swiftie must be famous though and have every local dog owner running to her door to have their dog trained, fantastic. Oh dear maybe The next door neighbour is 200 miles away, well Texas is a big place you know, still never mind,the journey must be worth it.

Members you just can't help admiring such a talanted person can you? being able to write an indepth book on all aspects of dog training from obedience to drug/gun/money detection let alone mountain rescue dogs. Does Texas have any mountains???

Yes a truely remarkable person who someone like me having earned a living for over 21 years working with dogs has to admire, let alone having several dogs at any one time for 40+ years. Looks as if I am a complete novice where dogs are concerned. Swiftie can teach me so much I don't think
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CaroleC
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Location: Stoke on Trent, UK
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27-08-2016, 09:13 AM
So 'Swiftie' thinks that competitive dog training means allowing her dog to chase prey? That really says it all! Dialogue is impossible with a closed mind.
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Trouble
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27-08-2016, 12:49 PM
Originally Posted by CaroleC View Post
So 'Swiftie' thinks that competitive dog training means allowing her dog to chase prey? That really says it all! Dialogue is impossible with a closed mind.

Same as NickyAnn and rabbits,I would have thought they were better trained if they called them off but hey we know nothing and must bow to their superior intellect
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Swifty
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Location: El Paso, Texas
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27-08-2016, 12:51 PM
Man has not been man for 40,000 years, so please check your dates.
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