I think it's a tricky one, i dare say the vast majority of pet greyhounds get little to no chance to exercise that chase instinct. I think provided that in some way the dog is catered for mentally it's ok. There aren't many proper working homes out there, and i think dogs can get just as much out of life in an active pet home as they can in a working home. It's not as if the dog is sitting there thinking "I wish i was in a working home" and i think people sometimes over complicate animals, I hear a lot about how awful it is that good horses are 'wasted' in certain homes because the owner doesn't compete the talented horse at top level when really, the horse doesn't care/know/understand. Same with dogs.

In my opinion and experience, what one may call "backyard breeding" (a term I no longer use) or breeding solely for companion/pets, may be to another, a breeder who is "bettering" the breed and helping to retain the standards by which the breed was originally created and preserved. I know of breeders who own titled, health tested, and breed surveyed dogs and I could not be paid enough to own one of their puppies. At the same time, I know of other breeders who do not even title the majority of their breeding stock and only health test minimally, and I have more respect for them than I would for some of those who meet all the criteria people tend to set forth for "reputable breeders" (another term I loathe to use).

As for breeders who openly and happily announce their goals to produce nothing more, and nothing less, than the perfect pet companion dog... I say that with all of the fearful, nervy, and health stricken dogs we find, even among breeders who seem to be doing it all right, I can't be bothered to criticize someone aiming for a well tempered dog of good health. If the breeder is honest about their dogs, and the buyer is educated enough to understand how to seek out the dog they want, then that is entirely their prerogative (the buyer and the breeder).

Of course, if someone truly loves the working breed for the temperament, drive, and character attributed to the type, there is no need for any breeder to dilute such traits within the breed. A dog produced from a working quality litter, out of parents that possess innate working ability, can make as perfect of a companion pet as any, so long as the buyer/owner understands that aspect of the dog. Even if a dog were to remain a working breed, the dog does not need to perform the original job for which the breed was created, not with an adequate understanding of the make up and nature of the breed and an educated and reliable assessment of the traits of the individual dog as per standard (such as through the use of the SchH test for a GSD).

I do personally see a breed such as the GSD as a working breed first and foremost, and when I seek out breeders/litters, I will do so with such a requirement in mind. I strongly favor those who aim to produce a dog true to the breed founder's ideal, a dog suited for all of the tasks it was bred to perform. I prefer those who want a dog of a softer temperament and less (to no) drive to seek another breed, but the reality is, is that people are often adamant about their choices. All I will concern myself with are my own decisions - not out of selfishness or apathy, but out of respect for the differences in opinion, and based on the acceptance that while I have my ideals, others will have theirs. There is little room to criticize when the matter can easily be interpreted as one of personal priorities.

I love a dog with a ton of energy who is highly intelligent and has a desire to "work" at something, even if it's a sport rather than the job the dog was originally bred to do. I would hate to see those traits bred out yet they're not traits the majority of pet dog owners I know want.

See this is what I'm unsure on. Are working dogs working many hours every day or are they expected to work as and when needed and chill out when not? Does it depend on the job the dog is used for?

I have absolutely no idea what background Spen comes from but compared to the other Labs I know around the same age he is much higher energy and far more driven to be doing something. Maybe I just got a faulty Lab

Have you had a Lab report done on him?

I think it's different for collies as they are out all year round, whereas your gundogs, are generally just out in the shooting seasons. Out, meaning full days out working, and not just training.

I think that is just down to individual dogs, lines and how much drive they have got, although, in my experience, dogs who are "working" dogs, do chill out more as they are in a kennel and there aren't as many stresses of everyday life for them to contend with. They tend to switch off.

Helen

Why so aggressive Murf? I was only trying to start an interesting discussion due to the forum being so quiet of late.

There are plenty of working and sport homes, but certainly not enough to provide homes for all the working bred dogs out there, hence my original question.

Not that it is particularly relevant to this conversation, but Zak was bred to fit any number of potential roles. His breeder supplies police, prison, sports, and active companion homes. The right working bred dog can be perfectly happy in the right active home imo.

My collies are and were also both working bred dogs, bred to be sheepdogs, but also fitted well into the role of active companion as well as working dog.

Flame was bred with obedience competitions in mind, while Yogi was bred from show lines but mainly for the pet market.

Hope that helps

My mind is split on the whole thing really. In an ideal world, people would research the breed of dog they were interested in owning and would only go ahead and get that breed if they were certain they could fulfil its needs and give it activity suited to those inherent requirements.

In this far from ideal world, much of the pet dog owning public buy a dog based on looks alone, with little or no research into what the breed's original function was, and with little clue how to channel the instincts. This can often end with a very unhappy dog and an equally unhappy owner. So, if there were specifically diluted versions of the working dogs then they may do better in the less researched pet home.

However, would a specific breed still be able to be called and considered that breed, if it is based on looks alone?

I agree. This is one of the considerations - is a border collie still a border collie without the collie drive, instinct and typical behaviour?

All the working collies I have known have had an off switch - provided they are given enough work, stimulation, exercise etc. Our collies have a different workload depending on the time of year, and will be busier at some times than others. They are all out a good proportion of the day, but that may just be driving around in the Landrover or accompanying me or hubby on foot to look around sheep, rather than actually hard exercise iyswim? They are all expected to settle and relax once work is over, and generally they want to recharge their batteries for next time they are out.

Maybe I should

But are collies out working all day every day or do they have days where they do little or even nothing? And what do gundogs do outside of shooting season? I think when many people think of working dogs they think the dogs are working from sun up to sun down every single day, just wondering how accurate that is.

Oh I agree it's down to individuals, lines, drives etc. Just saying Spen is nowhere near as laid back as the other Labs I know. A few of their owners have said they couldn't cope and he'd have to go if he were theirs I don't think he's that bad though. But then I wanted an active, intelligent dog I could do something with while they just want a nice family pet.