This is my pet hate, it revolts me completely.

I loathe it.


Wys
x

A mild threat, certainly my money analogue is not life or death either.

Adam

Then they must have been softer than the ones I have met, maybe despite my lack of experience (in your opinion) I have worked with harder dogs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndpylK9US30

I believe Roca would aggress if you had food he wanted, from commentary.

Adam

Yes anticaption can be a good thing, but also a bad thing.

Fact is many people cannot apply the management criteria you suggest (and your only talking about out of the house issues!). Like I say just because you can do it doesn't mean they can.

What I suggest you do then is

Advise the owner to rehome the dog.

Go with them to the rescue centre were they are told there is no space.

Go with them to the vet and hold the dog while its euthanised.

This is the reality of management breakdown.

Adam

But by withholding the treat you also punish the dog until it does what you want.

In many cases the dog is less bothered by the stim than lack of treat.

Adam

You don't half come out with some BS lol

I agree that is horrendous & it makes the trainer one of the worst forms of sadist I can imagine

And to think that some trainers use such harsh punishment to teach new behaviours is just beyond cruel! They're not even using punishment to stop an unwanted behaviour, but using it to teach a new behaviour ~ words fail me

1st off my problem with what you are saying it that you now say that pretty much everything you are thinking of training you are trying to find ways to use avesrsives to train - so you dont even try!
But how I see it as a pro dog trainer your dogs is to train and MOTIVATE the owner, adapt your methods and find a stratigey that IS managable for the owner
I think it is so funny/sad that you seem to assume that positive trainers are constantly advising people to rehome or put to sleep a difficult dog. Granted it is possible you have some poor trainers in your area - there are poor trainers everywhere - unfort this is because there is no regulation in the industry, but that is NOT how positive trainers work - if you spend a little more time looking round dogsey you will see how dedicated people are to helping dogs

Prove it please

Interesting wilbar - I like lots and never though about how reinforcing positive training is but you are totaly right, I like that angle

and I remember the one time I properly lost it and yelled at Ben, he had picked up a book that was v important to me and was settling down to chew it. I was having a really bad day and not thinking properly so a roared 'NO!' and grabbed the book from him
It totaly worked, he has never tried to chew another book again

But the look in his eyes!! He wouldnt be in the same room as me for the best part of an hour
I was properly punished for my horrible behaviour
I make sure and pick up after myself better and I think before I react when dealing with my dogs
- thankfully Ben forgave me

Until recently I would have said people like Adam do not have the empathy to realise they are causing pain - but Adams post saying he didnt care about Jaccas mental state during training makes me think you are correct

Its kind of like the wife beater who tries to convince that it is for her own good

Hey... isn't ole AP banned? Lol.

I want to clarify something that I don't think I tried to explain earlier about using a prong on Izze. I think I got all up in the heat of the disscussion & got too flustered to explain myself... which hapens a lot lol.

Yes I did use a prong on Izze & another dog I had, I will admit to that, but it was also before I knew better. Have I used one since I learned of better ways to teach a dog not to pull (as they are country dogs, so I don't nessessarily *need* a heel persay) if they start pulling on me I now stop & turn tell them 'easy' as many times as I need to & believe me it wasn't long before my pup, Jo got it! I just wish I knew of those methods when I had my other dogs but I make up for it by not putting any of my other dogs through that.

That's good to hear

There are other ways to train a dog than harsh punishment & I think those that have used such methods (perhaps because they were advised to, or it was just the done "thing", or because they didn't know any different) but then decide that it's not for them because they can see the harm it does to their dogs, are to be heartily commended . Nobody wants to condemn these people (many of us have been there!) but it takes a truly good person to admit they are wrong & embrace kind, positive empathetic methods to train their dog. So well done to you!