Motivating the unmotivated!

I babysit for a family who have a PWD. He's about 8 months old now. He's a sweet enough dog, friendly, good with the kids but he's a naughty little so and so Lots of jumping up, counter surfing etc. He's a bit of a thief and once he steals something, he absolutely will not let it go. Swapsies for treats or other toys do not work. He only wants what is in his mouth. I'm 99% sure it's an attention thing as he loves the chase to get him to give up the object. Thing is, if you ignore him then he simply won't put it down for hours...

They took him to basic puppy training classes for 8 weeks and he has been clicker trained. Thing is, he's totally unmotivated. He has no interest in training, he looks like its a chore even if you try to make it fun or having really scrummy treats. He can't be bothered with a Kong or puzzle ball, it's all too much effort. He only plays on toys on his terms. Sometimes he ignores it and if he wants it, he takes it and will not give it back I've tried two identical toys and he still won't swap. I'm positive it's attention seeking.

He gets bored within seconds and has the concentration span of a gnat. He hates repetition (I mean being asked to do something twice in a row, shock!) and just walks off. I've never met a dog so totally disinterested.

Now he's hit his teens and it's fairly unruly and stubborn. His owner said she thought he was untrainable. I said I'm sure he was, we just hadn't found his motivation yet! Thing is, I haven't managed to find anything that motivates him enough to enjoy training I'm faily sure that toys will be hugher value han food but his interest in toys are inconsistent and he controls them. Any thoughts?

Be much more rewarding and ask for less??

A friend of mines dog was just like that, turned out he was actually stressed, training was too difficult for him (he thought) so he wondered off and had no focus, did his own thing and seemed totaly unmotivated

I was messing about with other things and one day just decided to do a kinda 'klick for focus' type thing
Clicked him for being aware I was in the room then ran away from him, when he came in my direction (well kinda towards me) clicked and dumped a few treats on the ground and ran away from him
in no time i couldnt shake him off - he was glued to me
So then I clicked for just about everything he did
Then asked for something simple - a sit, clicked treated and ran away again

Just making it less serious, rewarding more and asking for less and he was a totaly different dog

Dunno if that will help your one hope you sort something out, its difficult when they are like that

Why on EARTH would a dog be interested in interracting with anyone to earn the right of access to things he already controls?

What about limiting his access to a toy (or maybe even all his toys?) so it becomes something the owners control and something he actually wants. My two aren't particularly fussed over the rope balls I leave down all the time, they certainly don't pay attention to them if I took them out on walks, but the balls I reserve for walks only are a lot more interesting. I know there are some protocols to make set toys really fascinating, e.g. keeping it in a drawer and taking the toy out occasionally, playing with it in the dog's view as if it's the most fun toy ever, but putting it away again fairly quickly. Building up the excitement and denying the dog access until they really, really want to play with this exciting toy.

Thanks Ben he doesn't even want to do basic things like sit, so rewarding some free shaping is a great idea

I have thought that too SB. It is their first dog and they don't really understand about the value of things. But I've never known a dog refuse a whole sausage under its nose

Karly, he has all of his toys left out and scattered everywhere. I had suggested that they find the type of toy he loves the most and limit his access. I shall suggest rotating his toys too,

I'm off there tonight, I'll see what I can do!

He is cute though

I'd do NILIF with him---work for anything he wants including a fuss. No toys unless owner controls them, all food by hand and if he switches off he misses a meal.

rune

Ok....had a bit of a break through tonight I point blank refused to play his games. He nicked a few bits while the kids were awake and there was a whole circus of them trying to get it off him until I stopped them. It's all one big game and no way he was going to give things up. Ignored him and they got chewed to bits. Casualties, one sausage pot lid and a Jenga block

BUT once the kids had gone to bed and it was just us, totally different dog. He kept dancing up with his ball but backing away when I went to take it. So every time he pulled away slightly, I walked away. He stopped backing up but wouldn't drop it. I calmly touched his ball, the slightest resistance, I walked away. Suddenly he started offering the ball properly and dropping it!

So I got out the sausage and the clicker and we got a perfect chain going. Drop ball - click - sausage - sit/down - click - throw ball - retrieve - repeat. He was happily giving up his ball and also happy to sit or down in command before having the ball thrown.

So while he was in the mood I did some general training with sausage reward. He was surprisingly into his sausage tonight, never seen him into food before. He started to learn stay. He also picked up on heelwork instantly. Both are new commands to him. Then he was doing sit and down in the heel position. Then we did a bit more toy play with swaps and commands. He was brilliant

Very pleased with him. So I think it's actually a frame of mind thing with him rather than a motivation thing. The six year old is lovely with him but very excitable and limited patience. I think he'd come on a lot if the parents can stop the kids doing the chasing game - which he thinks is great! But once he realised I wasn't playing, he became really attentive theres hope after all!

Rune, I'll tell them about NILF, I think it would do him the works of good as he's a cheeky money who isn't used to earning anything!

It is still a motivation thing

Tonight, you made it motivating to cooperate, but totally boring not to

Well yes I suppose it is I just meant that I previously thought he had no interest in sausage or food treats, when actually he does, he just needed to decide to concentrate first