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keziah
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17-04-2006, 06:00 PM

OMG he bit someone! (Why? Prevention? Discipline? Repercussions?)

Took our 9 month old Jack Russell cross to a local dog show today. We ended up having to wait around for about an hour. He was on a short lead and quite happy- not barking at the other dogs or anything- then suddenly as these people walked behind us he leaped at the woman and bit her on the top of her leg. We were mortified and apologised profusely. She said dogs will be dogs but later her daughter came to us and said it had broken the skin so she had to go to A&E for a tetanus. We were just deciding we should take him home when one of the organisers came up to us. She was actually OK (I expected her to have a go at us) and suggested we took him away, saying she thought it was probably overwhelming for him. We apologised to her too and told her we'd already decided it was best if we left, and did so.

He has been to puppy class and passed the first Good citizen certificate, and has been castrated. He has never done this sort of thing before, although just recently he has started barking at people walking past the house. When we got home he went to sleep on my lap and his chest feels a bit rattly, so I wonder if he is coming down with something and this has made him ratty?

Can anyone suggest
1) why he did this? Is it something we have done/ not done?
2) how we stop him doing it again- we can muzzle him in public as an immediate answer but long term I obviously don't want even the chance he might bite people at all
3) we didn't know how to punish him for doing it- we shouted at him but that didn't seem very effective- what should we have done?
4) what the repercussions are likely to be? presumably she could sue us and he isn't insured. Obviously I feel worse for her and could completely understand if she wanted to take action against us, but I also don't want to lose our pup. I don't think I could feel any worse than I do now TBH.

Any help greatly appreciated.
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Malinky
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17-04-2006, 07:15 PM
What a day, poor you!
I have a friend who experienced the same behaviour with her young dog (also a Jack Russell) a couple of years ago, I have asked her how she dealt with the situation and this is a rundown of what she said.

Does he show protectiveness toward you and your family, he might have felt that the woman passing by posed a threat in some way, in my friends case her dog bit a child who was running past her, her dog behaviourist noticed that although normally a calm dog he became agitated if something was happening out of his line of sight especially behind him. Is it possible he doesn't see you as Alpha in which case reasserting your authority is a must;Jan Fennells Amichien seems to work out well for most people.
Try to use muzzles as a last resort, maybe you should try a head harness lead if you want more peace of mind while out walking (these don't prevent a dog from biting but its easier to deflect the dog from his target with a tug than with a normal lead). Try to socialise him more with people who are strange to him but understanding of dogs, see if you can understand if the situation really was a one off or if he has a trigger.
As for punishment, shouting may just aggrevate the situation if it was a fear induced bite, a very forceful NO accompanied by placing a hand around the muzzle (light pressure to reinforce the No!) was recommended to my friend as a technique to use when faced with very hard mouthing behaviour in Max.
I wouldn't worry too much about the repercussions, the woman was at a dog event and therefore is probably understanding of what happened, its unlikely it's going to go any further, hes a young dog and she would have been able to see this and would probably assume that he was a bit overwhelmed at the days events, nobody at a dog event would want to take action against a young dogs momentary lack of judgement and I'm sure if she was really mad about it you would have faced the brunt of it there and then.

I hope you all recover from your little upset soon but I'm sure it was just one of those things.
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Pita
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17-04-2006, 07:17 PM
1/ who knows, they may have startled him, or he may have felt threatened or unwell.
2/think you should muzzle him in public, always.
3/don't think shouting or hitting will help and may make matters worse
4/That will be up to the injured person, your household insurance may cover you, hopefully they will not take matters further. If you know where they live a delivery of flowers may help to say sorry & a note to say it was unexpected but you know it is unacceptable and you will be using a muzzle in future.

I am interested in the effects of neutering and although it is clear that some bitches do become more aggressive when spayed but it is not at all clear that dogs do, it is clear that they may have problems with other dogs but it is not to be expected that they will become aggressive with people. So I do not think that the fact he is castrated will have caused his aggression toward people but it may be the number of dogs around him may have made him unsure of himself and a nervous dog is a dangerous one.
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Lottie
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17-04-2006, 07:33 PM
Originally Posted by Thordell
it is clear that some bitches do become more aggressive when spayed


I didn't know this - could you pm with details please Jackie?
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keziah
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17-04-2006, 07:58 PM
Thank you both. It is reassuring to hear it has happened to other people. We have no idea who the victim is so we can't send a personal apology, unfortunately.

Malinky, what is Jan Fennells Amichien please? I've not heard of it.
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JoedeeUK
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17-04-2006, 08:21 PM
Originally Posted by keziah
Thank you both. It is reassuring to hear it has happened to other people. We have no idea who the victim is so we can't send a personal apology, unfortunately.

Malinky, what is Jan Fennells Amichien please? I've not heard of it.
Ms Fennell is a self trained behaviourist with a degree in human pyschology who believes in the theory of dogs trying to dominate humans & deems herself to be The Dog Listener

You could contact an ADPT trainer in your area for help & advice. They have hands on experience & unlike the"top"behaviourists don't cost the earth. they are required to use kind & motivational methods rather than the somewhat debunked "domination"theories based mainly on tame wolf pack studies & dogs thinking humans are dogs
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Pita
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17-04-2006, 08:26 PM
Agree with you Dyane, and think a dog that has bitten once must never be given the opportunity to do so again, because then the question of should it be PTS becomes no longer a choice. A muzzle is the best answer until, if ever, you can be sure of the dog.
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Malinky
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17-04-2006, 09:08 PM
Try contacting http://www.k9crusader.com, I've read good things about Nadia's training through reading up on Utonagans, I'm sure she would be able to answer any questions you may have on training methods.
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Meg
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17-04-2006, 09:22 PM
Hello Keziah I am sorry to hear about this unfortunate incident, you must have been very shocked. Firstly, could there be a medical problem, maybe the vet should check your dog over..

I can't say why your dog bit today but I think all dogs have 'tolerance levels' above which they may bite, (that is why teaching bite inhibition to a puppy is so important) . The cause of the attack may have been one or a combination of things, stress at a new situation/excitement/defending his family/lack of socialisation/ the woman wearing something the dog did not like associated with a bad past experience ....you know when you have 'one of those days' and snap at people because a number of things upset you, I think dogs are the same.

The problem is once he has bitten he may do so again, the best option is to avoid the same 'circumstances' , also your vet will be able to refer you to a good behaviourist or trainer.
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Amie
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17-04-2006, 09:28 PM
Is there a chance she stood on Him

You said he was on a short Lead and he managed to Jump up and Bite her Leg so she must have been very close.

Some Dogs Just find shows etc too much, Kai Hates them so never goes
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