so are show type ess able to work aday out shooting? cause i was led to belive that they were incapable of doing so? please correct me if im wrong

I have to say yes they do and a perfect example on this forum is Ripsnorters "Isla" goes out in the field and is a damn good looking Springer too!

so what is the need to breed two different 'types' of breeds, such as ess and i believe another example is golden retrievers and labs. If the type in the show ring are so capable then what is the need to breed a different type for work? or is this unnecessary?

Types develop and breeders allow it, with labs they use a lighter framed and boned dog, but if you read the standard they shouldnt have big round eyes, nor light bone or whippy tails, most of the working labs have. Thankfully there are loads of breeders who do work their Labs too, and by making up full champions it proves there is no reason why a Lab cant look good and work too. Goldens are the same. I will say some Labs are too heavy, almost Mastiff in appearance, to me this is as bad as breeding for the opposite.

Hmm a difficult one. I don't believe two breed standards are necessary, more the dogs being shown being able to do what they were originally bred to do -and, as AM said, perhaps a working test being attached to gaining different qualifications - Show Champion for showing and Working Champion for working. Or perhaps they should say that no dog is able to be shown until it has passed a working test (and that working test should be a test of REAL work, not a watered down version).

I do see why you are asking the question though, as there are such massive splits between many breeds depending on whether they are show dogs or working dogs.

Borderdawn has given a fine example of a breed that is fit for purpose - it is a family pet, a working dog and also a show dog. If only more breeds were like this. Sadly, I can't see it happening personally.

I have to say that I prefer working dogs, I do find it a bit silly that there are dogs that are so far away from what they were bred to do that they can't do what they were meant to do, its kind of like a different breed, and I have to say one of my fav breeds of dogs is a working cocker, I wouldn't want a show type or a American type, but I really do like working dogs, and I would love to see champion show dogs do a days working

All the GSDs & BCs(plus the Beardies)have been all able to work & do the job they were bred to do & yes that did include herding for the GSDs & Beardies.

Actually even my Cavaliers can do the job they used to do, not tried them on Woodcock, but they have all been good mouse hunters(they used to do this in their "Noble"owners "apartments" back in the 16th & 17th & 18th century-mine have all been more spaniel than toy !

No splits for me all the BCs registered with the KC originated from ISDS dogs even the Antipodean dogs !

a defo no for me,

Although I don't work my whippets I know many people who work, race and show their whippets.

I gave a dog pup to a friend of mine last year although it took a while she got him to chase a lure he became the runner up in the east anglian puppy coursing cup beaten only by a dog that was just about to go out of puppy coursing and at his first attempt too. He was also reserve best dog in the uk working whippet champs. He has also been shown at open and champ shows but is often knocked back because he is fully fit and racing fit they say he is over muscled.Before he started racing he did well at shows.He has also now started to catch rabbits. He has sired a litter to a working bitch one of which is coming to me soon to be shown

I also own an ex racing greyhound she won a couple of races in her short career I bought her and retired her I now show her she was 3rd in the racing and coursing bitch at crufts last year at her very first show out of 14 entries and at the greyhound club champ she she came 5th in post grad bitch this time out of 12 and beat quite a few of the show bitches. One of the top greyhound breeders came to me and said they really liked her.

For these reasons I do not think there should be a seperate breed standard for working and show dogs both types should fit the standard and be capable of doing both jobs

NO!!! We don't need two breed standards. Dogs that fit their breed standard should be able to work to the function they were bred for. The only reason we get differences in type is due to breeders and judges interpretation on the standard. If you allow exaggerations of any type then it is going against the standard, but if this is getting awarded in the ring and if breeders continue to breed with this exaggeration in mind then that is why you ened up with two totally different type of dogs.

As other posters have shown there should be no reason why a dog who fits the standard for their breed shouldn't win highly in the ring as well as do brilliantly at the job they were bred to do.