|
|
Location: Wiltshire UK
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,404
|
28-06-2011, 04:52 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs 
Yes but she said after 2 meals skipped he was still not eating around other dogs so you said she had to make him MORE hungry
He isnt taking treats on recals so following your advice means not feeding the dog for long periods of time
If that is not what you ment then I would think about changing how it reads because lurkers reading this thread WILL take it to mean starve your dog for 4 days
But are LURKERS very dangerous people then?
|
|
|
Location: Wiltshire UK
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,404
|
28-06-2011, 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox
But thats not what SB advocates he says to with hold food for several days!!
Again, read the posts!
Read what it ACTUALLY says.
|
|
|
|
Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,723
|
28-06-2011, 05:00 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear
HAve you not been on any of his courses, read any of his books?
The APDT have backed JR for decades and if they found his methods so objectionable I doubt if they would stock his books in their library or advertise his courses would they?
I am not suggesting you crumble at all, I am merely pointing out that your views are ill conceived and not supported by the broad base of ethical dog trainers in this country nor the organisation to which you aspire to belong.
Why not pose that on their forum to see what they come back with?
If he is talking about using a portions of the dogs daily training while a dog is out and about for training then I totaly agree with it
If he is saying that if a dog is unable to take an interest in food while being trained then you have to withold all food until the dog becomes interested then I dont agree with that
Seems you are changing your tune a little here
Just to sort out and confusion here
Your advice for THIS poster with her dog who is still not interested in his treats in a park with other dogs about - is that to make him more hungry? To not feed him for more than 24 hours?
|
|
|
Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
|
28-06-2011, 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by talassie
Well to my mind food is available to the dog if he wants to come and get it. That is not the same as witholding food for several days.
Originally Posted by smokeybear
No that is NOT what "he" says!
Again, read the posts!
Read what it ACTUALLY says.
Feeding only on recall is depriving the dog of his daily intake, unless ofcause you are going to carry the dogs full daily intake out with you on your walk.
You posts suggest you need to have an extremely hungry dog, to achieve recall,
So a question .... do you give the dog the rest of his daily intake of food , after your recall exersice, or does it only get the small amount you use in your training.
Doing this for a period of 4 days in in no way a positive method.
You are gaining results by making a dog go hungry.
You find this acceptable, I dont.
Oh , btw, just a quickie, it would be much easier for us to read some of your responses if you could grasp the art of multi quoting.
its quiet simple, just click on "multi quote" and delete what you dont want to respond too.
|
|
|
|
Location: Wiltshire UK
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,404
|
28-06-2011, 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
well it really depends on what it is he recomends?
If he is talking about using a portions of the dogs daily training while a dog is out and about for training then I totaly agree with it
If he is saying that if a dog is unable to take an interest in food while being trained then you have to withold all food until the dog becomes interested then I dont agree with that
Seems you are changing your tune a little here
Just to sort out and confusion here
Your advice for THIS poster with her dog who is still not interested in his treats in a park with other dogs about - is that to make him more hungry? To not feed him for more than 24 hours?
I am not changing ANYTHING you may be INTERPRETING differently but I have not said anything contradictory in my posts.
Anyway for others who ARE interested in recall training workshops and/or John Rogerson KCAI (BehAWTA) here is some info:
http://www.johnrogerson.com/aboutjohn.html
There are no dates left for the ultimate recall course in 2011 but in 2012:
http://www.johnrogerson.com/2012coursesschedule.pdf
Very nice bloke, great competitor, judge, trainer etc.
|
|
|
|
Location: Southport, United Kingdom
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 229
|
28-06-2011, 05:07 PM
SB isn't suggesting you actually refuse to feed your dog for 4 days, but to only give a small ration of food on successful recalls, and this could take a couple of days for the dog to successfully associate good recall with getting fed. but food is always available for the dog if they recall.
|
|
|
|
Location: Wiltshire UK
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,404
|
28-06-2011, 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox
You point is that you need to make your dog very hungry to gain said recall,
Feeding only on recall is depriving the dog of his daily intake, unless ofcause you are going to carry the dogs full daily intake out with you on your walk.
Which if you read my original post on recall is it exactly what I recommend!
You posts suggest you need to have an extremely hungry dog, to achieve recall,
extremely hungery is a relative term though!
So a question .... do you give the dog the rest of his daily intake of food , after your recall exersice, or does it only get the small amount you use in your training.
Doing this for a period of 4 days in in no way a positive method.
Yes of course it is, it does something correct, it get positive reinforcement by getting fed.
If you offer treats when a dog is not hungry and will not eat, is THAT positive reinforcement or a waste of time?
Read how dogs learn by Burch and Bailey, it explains the concept of positive reinforcement much better than I can!
You are gaining results by making a dog go hungry.
I am gaining results by positively reinforcing a dog for compliance. I find this acceptable, sorry if you do not find +R acceptable, I do.
You find this acceptable, I dont.
That is your choicel
.
I took your advice!
ROFLMAO
|
|
|
Location: Suffolk
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,928
|
28-06-2011, 05:18 PM
SB i see you have had a sex change
|
|
|
|
Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
|
28-06-2011, 05:25 PM
Originally Posted by Rookgeordiegirl
John Rogerson i can truly rec. known him for years bought my first collie from him and did most of my trials training with him
SB i see you have had a sex change
|
|
|
|
Location: Wiltshire UK
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,404
|
28-06-2011, 05:26 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox
That little letter "s" is so important
|
|