That's a good point Dawn, and moving forward on that point, we come to the question of do foxes belong in towns? The answer has to be no they don't ... however, they would never have moved into town in the first place had they not been persecuted by man in the countryside through hunting, shooting, snaring and poisoning. O what a tangled web we humans do weave!

I don't think they would have been prey - more likely is that they were killing foxes because of competition for food and territory. And I believe the last wolf in the UK was killed in something like the 16th century?

From some google searching it would seem there are various dates and places being stated as the last time a wolf was either see or killed. One source suggests the last wolf was killed in England between 1485 and 1509, while in Scotland, it is said the last wolf was killed in 1743 by a hunter called MacQueen. However, other records indicate that wolves were seen in the wild in the Highlands as late as 1848.

So no-one seems to really know

I can believe that there could have been one or two stragglers hanging on hidden in the wilds of Scotland until well into the 19th century. How very sad that these beautiful animals were wiped out though in the UK - through man's ignorance. I would hate to see the red fox go the same way

It would be incredibly sad I don't think it will happen with the red fox though, as they are such adaptable creatures. No matter that people have been trying to wipe them out for years, they still continue to thrive.

Are you saying because of hunting, shooting etc.. Foxes had the presence of mind to say, "come on then, lets move into the towns cos we wont get shot or chased there" ??? Seriously??

Or could it be perhaps that they are opportunistic feeders who quickly realised that humans meant food?

No, I'm not - more that during the chasing process, they discovered what a glorious world of dustbins there was in the human world! Foxes are extremely intelligent opportunists, they will always look for the easier meal.

But I think it was probably man's activity that caused them to discover the joys of take-aways!!

I think it is more the fact that towns have encroached upon tr countryside; we have moved to them and they have adapted. It is starting to happen with badgers.

We are not top of the food chain. Disarm us and we are easy prey. A gun does not put us at the top; nature puts us as prey.

But foxes are an intelligent predator, why chase a rabbit when you have a whole load of chooks sat there that can't get away, and of course they would be drawn to a large hatchery, just as they will be drawn to large chicken raising facilities. But a large hatchery isn't a typical shoot, I don't know of one shoot that's got a team of employees driving round on quad bikes shooting foxes. I know plenty of shoots that control problem animals, and keep the population down which is simply good business.

Because foxes are creatures of habit, the same fox is likely to come back and predate again if it has been successful. Also, when asking someone to come in and control foxes, where possible a description of the fox is given, they vary considerably in size and colour, and environmental factors can play a part in that, such as the type of soil their earth is in, it can colour their fur.

I don't need to evade a hunt, as I said, we're top of the food chain. As for a human standing up to a tiger or shark, I believe we've almost driven them to extinction, so it's not really that difficult to see that we already can and do.

As a good gardener friend once told me, a weed is a plant in the wrong place, vermin are animals that through no fault of their own are in the wrong place. If it were an endangered species you'd relocate, but it's simply not practical to relocate foxes to anywhere, culling is the only sensible way of dealing with the problem.

I keep quoting and then forget your quote doesn't show all of your replies, so I'll probably miss most of your post out I'm afraid. But I can't recall you explaining the difference between how a rabbit and fox will perceive being hunted, which is the question I asked. You see a difference from your perspective, as indeed we all do, because one is edible, and the other isn't. However, I don't think a rabbit being chased down and just about to be eaten by a pet dog will have a last thought of 'never mind, at least I'll get eaten'.

Blow fly? I could be wrong but unless you're outside the UK I don't think you're at any risk.

I didn't say a fox would jump on your plate of food, just using the analogy that one is a pest when it flies into your house and dares to land on your food, and for that you are willing to kill, the other is a pest (in some circumstances) that you want to see live for no good reason I can see.

A lot of assumptions, the shoots I know do fence in their poults, there are bound to be some that don't do this very well, I'm not responsible for all their actions I'm afraid, as I, like you, support prevention rather than persecution in this instance. But I still can't agree that fox numbers should be allowed to increase in numbers that are unsustainable in any area, whether that's urban or countryside, whether it's on or near a shoot or not, numbers should be kept at a level that ensures the population overall survives in the best health possible, and maintains a healthy fear of us, after all, the more fearful they are of us, the less likely they are to come into conflict by taking poults etc.

Wrong job description, that's a vermin controller, it is part of a gamekeepers' remit to control vermin as and when necessary, but that's not their sole job. I don't actually know any gamekeepers that lamp for foxes on a regular basis, that's usually down to those who have permissions from land owners.

And of course they don't have the completely erroneous reputation of being a Granny eater like the Big Bad Wolf!