no, you need a relationship to live with the dog! that combined with training they go hand in hand..if u dont want any of that then a living breathing creature should not be had..get a stuffed toy!!

and stop kidding yourself u are training the dogs adam... take your tools away and what do u have?... i actually feel sorry for u.

We're not talking about living together though are we.

We're talking about simple bit of training.

Adam

you dont train.. simples!

erm... generally most people live with their dogs

Its about recall not behaviour in the home. Of course if their is a problem in the home that can also be addressed.

Define training.

I view it as putting behaviours on cue, so that when you cue them they occur reliably.

This is what I do.

Adam

Out of curiosity, would you/how would you train a dog who lacks confidence or has a low pain threshold to recall Adam? My old greyhound meets both of those criteria and I can't imagine him doing anything but going into a blind panic or shutting down if he had any aversive techniques used on him...

I'd just use the e collar.

They are adjustable so high sensitivity isn't an issue ect.

Once the dog realised that his behaviour controls the stim from the collar his confidence will go up anyway.

Adam

I fear you underestimate his wimpiness, he'll squeal at the slightest thing but thanks for the insight. I'll be sticking with my sassy 'I'll-come-back-if-you-gimme-some-chicken' method though

Cant be bothered to read the entire thread. A few bits relevent to me.

1. I DO use food/toys/clicker/OC
2. I ALWAYS teach the required behaviour FIRST
3. I will use a "no" "ahhahh" to mark the bad behaviour ONCE the correct behaviour has been taught, to "mark" the undesired behaviour before i ask for the redirection to the behaviour i want.
4. i may use a rattle bottle IF required, i Will use a long line,i will use head collars, i Will use a slip lead.Before i use all these methods the dog will no the required behaviour & after use the dog will always be redirected to the required behaviour instantly so it can be praised rewarded.

eg slip lead. Dog has already been taught llw, & knows "with me" "this way" "Back" but its habit is such that it needs abit more (maybe due to the abilites of its owners) in which case on the " back i will introduce a touch on the slip lead, followed by completly released with praise.

eg with Long line. Name response behaviour taught & proofed, but dog still needs help at a distance, i will stand on line as i say name as we walk, just to back up the name response & to give the dog a idea about you still have control at a distance.

You'd have them scared to do anything.

And I thought it only took ONE time Adam. Now it takes a few weeks? Hmmmm...me thinks you know...let me think...um...NOTHING.

As always. Why don't you just shut up? Seriously.

It's the trainer's behaviour that controls the stim. It's the trainer that controls the intensity and when it is applied. It's the trainer who will gain confidence in pushing the button.

All the dog will gain is discomfort and pain until it has worked out through trial and error what makes the trainer stop pushing the damned button.

Suggestion for you Adam. Find out where your nearest Deaf Club is and go along to the next get together. They all welcome hearing people going along. Go in there and see how much you understand of what is going on. Then try playing a game of bingo with them. Something you already know how to do, but see how much more difficult it is to play the game without number calling in the way you know. Once you've done this, you might just have a tiny idea of the difficulty dogs have in understanding what we want from them. Then reflect a while and see if you still think it fair to punish dogs for not understanding our requests for them to do things that they truly find incomprehensible until they are guided and taught 'how to play our game'.