Because i have spent time TRAINING them!!!!! with rewards & play! ive taken time to ensure they understand what i have taught them, i take tiny baby "puppy" steps & read my dogs.

Ive conditioned my dogs to believe im the most important thing in the world to them, more important than anything else, thats not done over night & i dont choose to do it through punishment, but slowely through play,training & reward?

I found your post quite agressive????????

I have watched quite a bit of his work. What are people`s opinions about his pack theory when it applies to the dogs being brought into his pack for the dogs to "teach" the newcomer. I saw one recently where a very small dog would not walk but was taught by the others (mother and puppy style) to do so. It was acombination of example and nudging. Another example was a Rotty who was taken there but also taken for herding work.He was using the pack as a teaching tool for the other dogs to pick up acceptable canine behaviour.

I don't have this imprinted on my brain believe it or not and have to keep referring to the blimin book which had frankly been sitting in the cupboard for around 2 years before I dug it out again the other day to quote from.

Also he uses words in a context that we may not generally use, which is why earlier in the thread I quoted what he meant regarding discipline, he isn't talking reprimands etc. he's talking the kind of discipline that makes you get up every day, makes you stick to a schedule. etc
Discipline that exists in every species, in the way that Bees are disciplined, Ants are disciplined. Nature doesn't view discipline as a negative thing. Discipline is survival.

You still with me What you have to bear in mind is not only is English a second language to him, but also he's in America.

i agree with that actually!!!!! I allow my older dogs to show the pups what to do! Although i clearly do think its important for owner to have input at other times so the dogs arent to relient on the pack!

Im not sure on what percentage id put on what i do? as it would depend on the nature of the pup, but prob something like 75%(me)-25%(dogs) with Mav as he was a little sod as a pup & needed lots of one to ones with his mum! i do however believe in dogs being allowed to just be dogs!

However with a middle of the road (personality)pet id might go 50/50%, totally depending on the nature of the pup, the behaviour of the other dogs & what "relationship" you wanted with the dog in the long run

Thank you, So I'm not the Devils Spawn then Seriously nor is he, the book would be brilliant for first time owners, he covers topics others don't. He clearly appeals to some sections of dog owners that others don't and If I can get any of them to read the damn book and take on board what he is really about then I've had a major victory.

Fantastic, so have I

I have very few rules domestically to be honest, i dont mind if the dogs jump all over me etc(they go through doors first,lie all over me, beg, all sorts of world domination stuff!!!), however they do know that if i do say something that i mean it!!!! Also i will (once taught & understood) only ever tell them something once!
My rules are Growling ok to the others but no biting.
NO growling to me whatso ever under any circumstances at all.
Come when called every single time,
When off lead & called in to walk behind me (off lead) until released or if im still to lie by my feet.

Think thats about it.

They are quite alot of "disciplined" behavoiur in their obedience work, ie i dont mean punishment, but self discipline as having to wait,sit straight, keep their heads in the right place etc, this all calls for alot of self discipline from them so at other times im not really bothered they can do what they like!!!!

Would you consider hiring yourself out or doing a doggy day camp?

PMSL who would go??????

There was no aggression. No hidden meaning. I simply asked the question of what you thought was behind the success of your methods.

It was genuine interest. I'm new here so I expect there is some history behind your defensiveness that I'm not aware of. But trust me - absolutely NO aggression. A genuine interest in your opinion. Trust me - I plan to have NO PART of any petty bickering.

But to help you to understand where I'm coming from, I think 'learned helplessness' is probably behind the success of many methods. You seem to equate it to punishment, but the way I see it if you make sure something ALWAYS has the same outcome then sooner or later the dog will stop testing to see what happens. So for example, if you make sure that over and over your recall always succeeds then your dog just assumes that it has no option but to obey. Everytime it's allowed to fail your dog learns that it doesn't have to obey.

In the example of the elephants in india that I posted earlier they tied the baby elephents to trees - by the time they were fully grown elephants the could tie them to twigs and they wouldn't even try to wander off. No different really from putting a dog on a lead? At first the dog/elephant might pull to get away, but in time if you stand firm, or reward it with treats for not trying to escape it will believe it can't. Now in the case of large, powerful dogs they could get away from a small handler quite easily. But they've been conditioned not to. Now whether you get best results from being firm, from physically restraining the dog, or from enticing it with treats and cuddles I would have thought would depend very much on the qualities of the dog and the handler.