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Location: Essex, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,147
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10-01-2011, 05:55 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer 
More levels (10 to 127) so the dog can be catered for indivadually.
Before it was just one high level (way higher than any modern collar).
Adam
That doesn`t sound like much of an improvement to me. You hurt dogs so they do what you want. That is abusive behaviour.
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Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,848
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10-01-2011, 05:55 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy
I doubt Crysania is a dog. Therefore this is nonsense.
Maybe I am! Maybe I figured out how to type with my paws! Maybe...Ok...you're right. It's utter nonsense.
I cannot understand how Adam thinks shocks do not equal pain. We have ALL dealt with static electricity and it is painful!
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Location: South Wales, UK
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,574
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10-01-2011, 05:57 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Well it was, so believe what you want lol!
She could certainly spell better than me lol.
Adam
I doubt many will take your word for it Adam.And on that note I think it's fair to highlight that I think many would also disagree with you on your training methods, especially because you use, in most people's minds, out-dated, barbaric, cruel methods.
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Location: Essex, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,147
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10-01-2011, 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Electric shock doesn't equal pain!
Adam
Pantomime season not over yet I see.
Have you read 1984 Adam - your thinking seems to come straight from Orwell`s Ministry of Truth.
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Location: North Yorkshire
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,610
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10-01-2011, 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by Crysania
I cannot understand how Adam thinks shocks do not equal pain. We have ALL dealt with static electricity and it is painful!
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Location: South Wales, UK
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,574
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10-01-2011, 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Electric shock doesn't equal pain!
You must do if you're trying to tell us electric shocks don't hurt!
Have you tried wiring yourself up to an electric plug socket? Did it hurt? I wouldn't advise it btw - you might die!!!!!
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Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,848
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10-01-2011, 06:01 PM
Originally Posted by Azz
We will
I doubt many will take your word for it Adam.
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Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,065
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10-01-2011, 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
E collars can't physically hurt the dog! Did the video actually suggest that or is that your opinion?
Btw havn't watched the vid as compute is sh*t.
Do these dogs look brain damaged?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQfZ9gi7hg8
Adam
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
E collars are used at the lowest level the dog feels, they indicate they felt it by looking around or flicking their ears when they feel the stim. Is looking around,flicking the ears ect a sign of pain?
While I haven't seen the vid (computer) I believe that it simply used strong positive punishment to demonstrate/create a avoidance response to a specific stimulus. This positive punishment happened to be a static stimulus. They could equally have beaten the dog with a lead or kicked it. So by your logic leads/feet ect are bad!
The strong punishment is not my style of using e collars and I don't know anyone else who does it either!
Why?
A, e collars are not made strong enough for this! All e collars currently available are designed to work at a very low level of sensation. They simply aren't capable of producing high levels of punishment so people don't/can't use them as the russian scientist did.
B, Big punishment is (outside of a scientific setting) quite difficult to apply practically!
C, Its much more effective to use the e collar as neg reinforment (pressure and release) to train alternative behaviours.
When I started e collar researching I was amazed that the trainers used excatly the same princples as reward based trainers, just with an additional style of reinforcment.
Adam
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Try copying the link, sometimes works for my computer (not atm though lol)
Azz
Stim is not the reward, stopping the stim is, its called negative reinforcement.
Electric at a low level doesn't hurt. If it did the dogs would yelp/jump ect. They don't!
Reward based methods may not inflict pain (e collars don't either!) but they still cause stress and frustration.
Adam
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Sorry missed this.
Collars have different levels because dogs have different sensitivity. Level one on many collars won't be felt by most dogs. The collars still have level one because a minority of dogs may feel it.
Remember just because it hurts you doesn't mean it could hurts the dog! I wouldn't swim in my local lake because the cold water would be very uncomfortable/painful atm, my dogs however have no issue with it!
Adam
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=122571&page=3
I don't know what videos your talking about. I also really don't need advice. I need a professional trainer to work with me directly. I've heard amazing things about him from people who have actually used him here in Plymouth. I'm more inclined to trust the results I see first hand from people who have dogs who I've known for years. I appreciate the good gestures but I truly am, for now, only interested in getting in touch with Adam.
How come people are saying this about me then?
Adam
You seem to be almost understanding here when you say that just because we feel pain does not mean the dog does....surely you can see that this also goes the other way?
I Will say again - dogs are Stoic creatures - who will often not respond to pain for various reasons. One being fear - if you are afraid it is not not wise (from an animals POV) to show pain, that would make you vulnerable.
In high adrenalin situations you will find the same.
Thinking that a Yelp/Jump is the only way you would know this again demonstrates a lack of understanding of animals full stop.
Something tells me you don't want to understand as you 'see' what you want.
As to people saying that - it says far more to me about today society and wanting everything now...without the work or effort being put in to do it kindly.
