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pippam
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06-09-2011, 09:55 AM

Main meat of RAW

so if Offal and veg only makes up a small portion of the dogs diet what would be good as a regular meat so I know what to ask for when I go to the butcher?? Millie is 7kg and 6 months now. She is still a puppy so im to understand she needs more protien (from what ive read on the back of wet foods dry foods) then adults as she is not yet fully grown.

Chicken wings don't go down very well or am I just giving them to her wrong? I understand balance is needed though no one has said this before till I brought it up, I read on a Raw feeding site that other dog owners have had some downsiders to feeding chicken wings what would make it balanced so she doesn't have trouble going to the loo?? The second time I gave her chicken wings she cried a lot when doing number 2's and what came out was indeed a very hard stool!! How often should a dog of her size get chicken wings??? Is their anything else similar that would be easier for her to digest like ribs?? Im to undertand that ribs are pricey.

Breast of lamb went down a treat! No problems it went down the hatch as quickly as I gave I put it down and it was raw! Eventually ill give her larger chunks, wont be giving it to her often as its very fatty and fatty meats make fatty dogs.
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krlyr
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06-09-2011, 10:16 AM
The main meats mine get are chicken, beef and tripe. These can be in minced form, chunks, chicken breasts, carcasses, legs, wings, etc.
I don't tend to feed chicken wings so much as I have bigger dogs, they tend to get chicken carcasses. These have even less bone on them than wings so I do make sure I give an offal meal at the time same. Offal has the opposite effect to bone and loosens stools, so it can be good to feed the two at the same time to counteract each other. Alternatively I'd give offal in the meal before or after giving bone.
I have heard that raw fed dogs need a little bit of time for their stomachs to adjust to digesting raw food rather than commercial foods so it may be a good idea to lay off too much bone at the minute and start her off with just raw meat and very little amounts of bone and offal. Remember that you want to start off with one type of meat initially - chicken is one of the easiest to get hold of really, supermarkets will sell it in pure breasts, packs of wings/thighs/legs, chicken liver and kidneys in packs, etc. so that's often a good starting point. If you want to avoid supermarkets (I know they're pricier to start with but for a month or so it may not be too bad, this is how I started off, to check my two liked raw and liked various meats before buying a freezer and placing a bulk order). Alternatively, see what meat the butcher can get in most easier for you and that could be your introductory meat.
Remember that if you introduce too many new meats at a time then you risk a) upsetting her tum and b) not spotting a problem - for example, my two can't eat large amounts of lamb as it gives them wind, so I tend to avoid it for the most part (they're OK with small amounts, e.g. the lamb & tripe mince my supplier sells, and lamb bones with less meat on them than ribs)

As for quantity, the recommendation tends to be 2-3% of the dog's ideal adult weight, or 10% of the puppy's weight. So a 7kg puppy would be getting 700g of raw food a day (as a rough figure, you may need to adjust this for your dog). The proportion of meat/offal/bone that I follow is the prey model diet's figures which is 80:10:10, so that'd be 560g meat, 70g bone and 70g offal (remember that bones, e.g. chicken wings, tend to have some meat on them, but also that some minces contain bone - some suppliers put more bone into their minces that others, so doublecheck the percentage and allow for this in your figures). Don't really know the weight of the chicken wings you're feeding so you'll have to weigh them, but if for example, the wing weighed 40g, you could probably feed 2 - although it'd be 80g, you're feeding some meat too. Raw food doesn't have to be 100% absolutely perfect, you achieve balance over time, and each dog varies. My two need about 500g of bone a week, but this doesn't mean I feed 71.4g per day - I may feed a chicken carcass that weighs 500g and that's it for the week. I may feed half a carcass, twice a week, or a few chicken wings 3 days a week, for example, you'll find out what suits your dog - sometimes it may not even need the whole 10%, you may find that you need to adjust that to about 8% to stop constipation, for example. Mine probably get more than that 500g some weeks and they're fine, just be careful as constipation can be painful and you don't want the dog getting all bunged up with bone, I would say err on the side of caution and go for slightly less at first until you get a bit more confident and get to know how your dog is doing on raw.
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sarah1983
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06-09-2011, 10:20 AM
At the moment I'm feeding mostly chicken as its cheap. Chicken breast and chicken legs here. I have some ox heart in and some minced beef for him to have this week as well though and he had liver on Saturday. It's high bone content that causes the hard stools so if she's having problems on just chicken wings give her half the meal as wings and half as chicken breast and see how she is with that.

Advice is usually to start with one type of meat and add in another after a couple of weeks and keep doing that rather than give them huge variety all at once.
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pippam
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06-09-2011, 10:32 AM
So if I fed her maybe a quartre of a chicken wing and then supplemented the rest with offol or meat should be all right with that??
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krlyr
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06-09-2011, 10:52 AM
She should only really be having as much offal as she has bone, meat should be the main component of the diet.

To work out how much to feed you want to know her estimated idea adult weight - slightly easier with a purebreed! Google seems to suggest the average weight for a female Cocker is 13-14kg.
2-3% of 13kg is 260g to 390g a day.
The puppy formula is (up to) 10% of puppy's weight which would be 700g but at 6 months she may not need quite this much. Tends to be easier to put weight on a dog rather than shift it so I would probably work on a lower amount and adjust if needed, but not drop too low as she's a growing pup and they tend to need more resources. Maybe somewhere around 4-500g, or slightly more if you feel she could do with putting on some weight.
Once you have your daily figure, you want to know your proportions of meat, offal and bone, which is (prey model diet and a few other methods of raw feeding) 80:10:10. Say you decided on 500g, that would be 400g of pure meat, 50g meat and 50g bone. If you're down to feeding twice a day, then an example day could be a half a 50g chicken wing (so 25g), 25g of chicken liver, and 100g of chicken mince for breakfast, followed by a 300g chicken breast, the remaining half a wing, and 25g chicken kidneys for dinner.

Realistically you won't want to faff around making every meal perfectly balanced, especially if you go on to bulk buy, but it won't hurt to start off this way until you find your feet. I started off using spreadsheets, weighing out food prescisely and so on, but you get into the swing of it and learn to measure things by eye and judge by your dog's weight, whether the poos are too chalky or too loose, etc.
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pippam
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06-09-2011, 11:34 AM
She is getting 400g's a day now I find anymore would make her fat, just tried her with some chicken breast she adores it!! It couldn't go down quicker!!
Got a free marrow bone from the bucther its got loads of marrow in it too, bucther recond she would take one sniff and turn her nose up at it she did at first till i put it on the floor and she has been going at it ever since, these would normally cost me £2 at pets at home know where ill be going now on ^__^

I think the butcher was a little offended that I said I was buying for my dog but he did advise the chicken legs would be cheaper, I would have gone with them but I was after the chicken breast really since I have some chicken wings in the fridge all ready.
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krlyr
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06-09-2011, 11:51 AM
Remember that marrow from marrowbone has a laxative effect. Might help her out a little with the constipation from the chicken wings but I would probably leave it down for a bit then pop it back in the freezer before she eats all of the marrow out of it, or you may find she goes completely the other way and gets a tummy upset!
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pippam
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06-09-2011, 12:00 PM
Originally Posted by krlyr View Post
Remember that marrow from marrowbone has a laxative effect. Might help her out a little with the constipation from the chicken wings but I would probably leave it down for a bit then pop it back in the freezer before she eats all of the marrow out of it, or you may find she goes completely the other way and gets a tummy upset!
good to know ill pop it back in the freazer soon ^^
its a fairly big bone a tade bigger then the ones in pets at home its really stuffed with bone marrow too.
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