They sort of creep round low...watch what they're trying to herd with that infamous collie eye of theirs and run round the thing they're trying to herd..

All our sheepdogs have shown eye and the instinct to herd from a fairly young age. Your dog won't have the inherent instinct to herd (that is needed to make a successful working sheepdog) because it wasn't bred to herd stock. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I do know a sheepdog trainer who occasionally takes dogs in to train NOT to chase sheep - the last one being a springer spaniel. I could put you in touch with him if you are interested. He is in Lancaster, so not that far away from you.

Reading this I can understand what you are trying to do but I think for me personally I would always have my dog on a long line when walking close to livestock boundaries and so I could reel him in before he got through and take him to the park you have found where there is no livestock so he can have his free running.
Ollie is not a breed known for a high prey drive but I still would not chance it you just never know what might be going on in their head that day.
I hope you find your solution, but I think the long line one is the safest.

Just to update on how things are going as this conversation has begun to spill out onto another thread.

We are going to the park for a couple of hours either every week or every fortnight where his off-lead behaviour is showing improvements all the time.

His recall is now much better than it was and he will come back every time. Sometimes though, he doesn't come STRAIGHT back to me but will come near me and run around me a little first. I think the fact that I now have two dogs is helping his recall as Blaze's recall is fabulous and if Spike sees Blaze responding to the recall first, he'll charge towards me like it's a competition to see who can get there first.

I still haven't managed a distance-down though. Can anyone help me with this? Whenever I say 'down' or 'sit', he comes to me first and then does it. How do I get him to do it on the spot?

He's brilliant now at 'wait' and will wait by a door without going through - even if I go through it and go out of sight - for about 20 seconds now (and counting). He will also wait off-lead until I say 'OK' before he can go off and play.

Still having trouble getting his focus while we are near sheep (on lead and not in the same field as the sheep of course). The highest-value treat I have found so far is raw chicken wings cut up into half-inch pieces, but even these seem to lose their appeal near sheep.

I'm having trouble finding the opportunity to do clicker training. I have bought a clicker but don't really get any time with the one dog where the other one can't hear (I only have two rooms downstairs and you can hear the clicker easily in the next room). Any time I try to put Blaze somewhere to do something with Spike on his own, she gets really upset and starts crying, jumping on doors and scratching to get to us.

The 'come-close' is going OK. I need to work harder on this point I think, as lately I have been concentrating more on the other stuff. He will stay fairly close whilst walking off-lead, but not as close as I'd like. Blaze is much better at this but Spike is too distracted by scent marking.

'Leave it' is getting better all the time. I'd like to practise getting him to 'leave' other dogs he wants to play with as his behaviour with these is sometimes very similar to the behaviour he does while thinking about chasing sheep. I could do with a friend to practise this with TBH, as whenever I try it on a dog we don't know, the owners always seem to assume he's dog-aggressive and quickly go off!

I think (IMO) this is a great idea.......
Skye has the 'instinct' to herd.....luckily the only one out of the three..we trained her by ''long line''' NOT TOO, now when we are up Sutton Park, being ''common Land'' there is always some herd or other grazing away, now she just looks and walks on...the command being 'WALK ON'

Missed this one when you posted it, sorry to drag it up from so far back in the thread

I would`nt use a choker, rattle bottle, nor one of CMs ridiculous `bite touches` any more than I`d use a shock collar.
Chokers cause injury which can lead to death, [ from collapsed trachea ], rattle bottles the way they are portrayed on a certain TV program are shown completely incorrectly to how they were supposed to be used, [ as a non-frightening distractor to illicit interest toward the handlers direction, not cause fear or fright by having the things lobbed toward nor shaken in the dogs face and done to deliberately spook the dog but the program has completely wrecked any chance of the general populous using one as it was originally thought up for ].
All the methods you mention there are punitive and designed to cause pain or fear, none of which are appropriate for training a dog, there are better ways, which the advice through the thread reflects so well, you need to be consistent, fair, and patient to get results for good focus, though I stand firmly by my belief that no dog which does`nt have a right to be around livestock, [ ie working dogs ], should be off lead anywhere in their vicinity.

The third time he chased the sheep ??????? He shouldn't have been allowed near sheep off lead after the first time let alone the third.

I wish I had a pound for every dog that only chased sheep didn't want to harm them I would be rich. Sheep can die, abort their lambs etc just because they have been chased rather than herded by a train dog

The e collar doesn't work because once you take it off or don't use it the dog will chase.

Staying away from livestock & keeping on a long line is the only way to go I'm afraid

Are you able to re focas his prey/chase drive onto a object you can control? i e a Suitable toy you can have full control of?

The stage you would need to get too is that this toy means more to him than ANYTHING!!! much more than sheep.

If you think you might be able to put the work in to him to develop the toy drive & he might be interested in a toy, then let me know & i will tell you some tips to get him really onto the toy.

I would love some tips to get toy drive
My guy is not really food or treat motivated. He is v praise motivated and will take treats as a marker - or at agility he will follow the ball over the jump but not bother to run and get it cos working is more fun
he will fetch - but easily distracted to anything else (not that I mind - its a game for us not a battle of wills or anything)
I do keep toys that only come out for agility, I have spent lots of time me playing with them and not letting him have them and trying to get him excited
He does like the odd game of tug - but only now and again - 1/2 the time he will just ignore toys

its not a major problem but sometimes it would be nice to have a BIIIG focus to make things easier for both of us
any tips to build toy drive would be great!!

Tips needed here too! Spike doesn't show ANY interest in toys at all!