Personally I don't like to dwell on the past - it is a very negative thing to do because what happened, happened, you have to move on and keep the past in the past. Sh*t happens to every dog, and especially with a breed like Myrsky it is vital to remain calm and shrug an incident off, however unpleasant. Myrsky is super-smart, super-intuitive because of his genetic makeup and will pick up on incredibly subtle signs such as raised heartbeat in his owner, faster breathing, sweating even ... all dogs can and do do this of course, but these northern breeds are so veery different from non-northern breeds as we all know!

Again my personal advice would be to not respond to any shutting down and wanting to go home in any other way but a positive one - gentle but brisk hearty encouragement ... 'walk on Myrsky! Good boy let's go!!'

Oh yes, I wont forget this day. But I was very surprised how he took it, and it feels like he forgot about it. After this happened, we saw the dog again,but myrsky wasn't afraid.
With some real meat, he is easy to redirect. We will move on with training. And I will let you know in the future, how it goes.

O wow! You are so brilliant!! You really do "get it" don't you!! You are exactly the sort of person who should have these tricky northern breeds, you listen to what you know is correct, and you are not starry-eyed having seen "Snow Dogs!" and White Fang" and want one!! Tawneywolf is a very wise old buzzard and very experienced with these wolfie types, and will always give you sound, practical and sensible advice. Best of luck and do let us know how Myrsky goes x gnasher x

A good attitude but we're talking about dogs! They don't contemplate their navel. They react to their immediate circumstances and past experiences may impact on present behaviour.,

yes, **** happens and that's how dogs become reactive !



As I said in my previous post, several things may contribute to or cause a behaviour .

True, but surely this is why it is so important for the dog to have had a positive reaction from his owner to a past experience? A positive reaction which said "yup, you were attacked at a very young age, but hey, **** happens, and we have moved on together from that". My Ben's father, Hal, was savaged by a german shepherd when he was about 14 weeks old. He shrieked and cried, the owners of the GSD apologised profusely, I said don' worry about it, these things happen, he's OK, no bites, and Hal quickly calmed down because of my attitude ... I never allowed him to then be scared of GSD's or to have any negative thoughts as a consequence of the unprovoked attack. He never suffered as a consequence of that attack - he moved on - because I did.

Owner reaction can certainly reflect on a bad situation, but don't ignore the fact that no matter how the owner reacts, each and every dog will react to bad experiences differently regardless.

For instance someone who is terrified of spiders will still be terrified regardless of whether or not their partner is scared too or just laughs at them.

I am surprised that the trainer in this case hasn't offered some suggestions as, of course, they are on the spot and can see what's happening

Good point - but we are not talking about partners here - to Myrsky his owner is not his equal, his partner; his owner is his pack leader, his "mummy". Just like a child, Myrsky will respond far more positively if his "mummy", his pack leader, is calm and unflustered - I am terrified of those large house spiders, but never did i react negatively to one in front of my daughter when she was a baby or adolescent - or negatively to wasps, or anything else I was scared of. When she fell off her pony, she was actively encouraged to get straight back into the saddle - if I had fussed, and flapped and cooed over her, she would then have likely become a nervous rider!

Every dog is of course different and individual - some are natural wimps, some are not - but it sure does help if we as owners demonstrate calmness in a crisis. We can of course show compassion and understanding as well if shut down occurs, or negative reactions, but the most important thing at the time is to remain calm and unemotional, not to start shrieking hysterically at the other dog and the owners - even though that is exactly what you feel like doing!

Once again, I think we will have to agree to disagree because my view of dog ownership is one of a partnership between owner and dog.

Staying calm and unflustered is a given but so much easier on paper than in real life where events can overtake even the calmest of us

Sorry! Don't mean to be argumentative - we both have our own very strong views!!

It is so hard to stay calm and unflustered when your 14 week old pup is being disciplined by a grown GSD, I know this, and I am not a calm person by any manner or means, but I do seem to achieve calmness now with my wolfie boys and it makes a huge difference, particularly with such an assertive git like Ben. At last he has become a pleasure to walk rather than the walk consisting of constantly having to watch your back and sides for unexpected approaches from other dogs. He comes immediately to heel and once on the lead will walk calmly past the other dog, which frequently will be barking and growling at him.

Well said, Chris. And who knows-- maybe a given occasion really does warrant a panic response, in which case, it's the right thing to do.

There's a wonderful Zen adage that was mentioned in one of my dog books (if anyone recognises it, please could you tell me so that I can credit it appropriately?) that I think might apply here, especially on the subject of dogs living in the moment. It goes:

This being the case, how then shall I proceed?

It's very apt, I think, when applied to how we handle dogs, in tricky situations, in iffy situations, in situations where we just don't have a very firm grasp of what's going on (this applies to me in all aspects of my life! ). As with all things Zen, it's deliberately vague while being simple to the point of too obvious to state. The point is to think about it, and I think it's a very useful little tool for handling doggy situations.

Yes, dogs do live in the moment-- far more than we do, anyway. But, naturally, things that happened in the past, even quite distantly in the past, affect both species. If it didn't, there would be very little point in all this learning and training we engage in. We could all be mindless automatons unburdened by a grasped history, getting by on automatic conditioning, reacting to every new situation just as it comes to us. We wouldn't even have to worry about the cruelty of an uncaring universe or what sort of malevolent deity would make us so that things like pain and grief are so unpleasant because we'd lack the narrative capacity to construct such a worry. It might be blissful, but a pretty pointless sort of bliss, if you ask me... but that's not the point, that's just me rambling. Sorry! The point I was trying to get to is that we humans are unbelievably good at burdening ourselves with history. It's our best trick, and it's what has led us to be so successful. We build histories and narratives and manipulate them in our minds before they ever enter reality, if they ever do; we see patterns where they're nearly invisible and sometimes where they don't exist, we construct rules and laws and prescriptives based on our humongous capacity for overthinking everything we encounter. It's an ability that has served us well. But not everyone thinks like that, and not everyone needs to.

Dogs don't need to, and they don't construct these elaborate stories in their minds about what happened in the past and what it means for the situation right now. Of course I don't know how a dog's memory even works-- I don't know how mine does, either-- but I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that we don't approach the same things in the same way. Dogs don't have the capacity to overthink the way we do. It may not be useful to try to make ourselves think like dogs-- we lack that capacity, after all-- but it's important to recognise that there are differences.

So here's a hypothetical situation: I'm walking along with my dog and here comes X. X has attacked my dog in the past, and my dog was terrified at the time. So what's going to happen? Is X going to attack my dog again? Does my dog believe that X is going to attack my dog again? Is my dog terrified by the presence of X? Quite possibly: there's a good historical precedent after all. OMG X is coming closer. What is going to happen? What is X going to do? What is my dog thinking? What might he be thinking? What is X thinking? That my dog is an easy target? Does X even remember my dog, or do they just attack everyone? And-- and-- and---

So, going back to the Zen. What I think the adage is trying to get us to do is to keep it forefront in our minds, and stop overthinking. Hold it all in mind at once before rampaging ahead: this being the case... okay, what is 'this' in this situation? Drop the history, drop the counterfactuals, but don't drop what is necessary. X has attacked my dog in the past, and that is part of my 'this'. Now, what else is involved in 'this'? My projection of my dog's imagined fear isn't. That's a construction of mine. Drop it. Is my dog actually afraid? Is that part of 'this'? I won't know unless I pay attention to what is the case. X's being an evil monstrosity bent on destruction isn't. That is also my construction; drop it. Watch X. I only know what I have access to right now. What is the case? Once I can make observations without my own baggage in the way, now: how shall I proceed?

And that's what I think Myrsky's owner did perfectly. As it happened, Myrsky wasn't terrified, and they were able to walk on in a calm and peaceful manner and make something positive out of it. Had the situation actually panned out differently, it might have merited a very different response, but in this case, the response is perfect.

Sorry... I seem to be incapable of posting anything without writing an essay. Blame my history. and yeah, I do realise there's an irony in being asked to overthink overthinking... but hey, if you can't see the humour in Zen, it's probably not really your cup of tea. :P