Oh right, so none of you have ever given a short tug on the lead.

Get real.

Nite nite, I'm off to bed.

Thankfully no.. To me tugging the lead is hardly a good, effective way of correcting bad behaviour! The only person that needs to get real is the one that has failed her dog, now needing to resort to the use of cruel methods.

Agreed.

I don't particularly feel the need to be cruel to my dogs!

This will (I suppose) be my last post on here!

First off a few apologies, sorry for the crap spelling and grammer, Thats just me tbh! Sorry if anyone has felt got at, but this is an internet forum and if you didn't want it brought up don't post it up!
I note many of you have delved into my history (via the internet) you can do what you like, I've nothing to hide!
I'm sure I will see a few of you around some who live in the southwest (Rune, Tassle, Nippy ect) and maybe misflyn at the dog show, btw I have a beard now but might not by then!

My primary interest from the start (of my business) has been the dogs! People I can take or leave, I have had no interest in making friends or becoming infamous/famous through this, I like my job but am sure there are easier ways to make money. Certainly ways that won't get me hate mail or bitten or the terrible statement ''this is his last chance''. But what the hey, I'm in it now and won't back out, once again for the dogs.

Re dogsey, certainly a funny lot. I have seen some really cruel group mentality on here. Cyber bully really, I don't care but how must it come across to the casual observer?
Also your all stuck on how pro dog you are but really what do you do?
Imprison them to leads and lines for life, pts when they get to much to handle and pass it off as badly bred or whatever.
I think many people are well meaning but out of their depth with bad advice.
If you look at a lot of prominent pet owner posters they have one thing in common, months of positive training and very little progress.
I've yet to see any advice but very basic fluffy stuff either. There are pages of anti e collar crap but not one word about how to get the same result with food or toys.
At least I spell out my methods.
Mostly the advice seems to be about how to be a more benelovent prision guard to your dog than anything else.

Dogs/training in general, well wear to start. Several people have questioned the welfare of my techniques, yet at the same time rescues are full of dogs with mild issues that were dumped by owners who couldn't fix it, ten minutes with an e collar and I'd do more for these guys than many could do in a week.
Sadly most will be pts!

The dog world is changing people, apdt is a gonner, lots less members than before. The whole reward based movement is going nowhere fast, yeah you can do fancy tricks with lots of oc chat but you can't stop the dog going for the next scary one that comes along, whats the point in that.
Talk is cheap and no one cares about the journey except hikers!
In 10/15 years I think balanced training will rule, that means aversives mixed with reward based methods, you only have to look at the top sport trainers who use e collars and clickers to know this.

On the subject of e collars, We live in a society with less time to train and less space to exercise dogs. E collars reduce training time and increase exercise opportunities.
The price is dropping every year. Four years ago a average remote collar was a sizeable investment, now I click by it now without a thought.
By many peoples own admission the rise in tricky breeds is giving rise to e collars, huskys/mals in the hands of the general public are great as long as they have control, guess what gives them that and without a lifetime on the lines!
Wolfdogs ect are just the same.
Even the general person with a couple of labs is no longer able to risk a dodgy recall or keep them on lead for years, once again an e collar is the logical solution.

I wonder too how many of you dog lovers would kill you healthy pet instead of e collar train it? Maybe lots on here but out in the real world lots wouldn't!

Social acceptablty is geared by the society its in, right now I think things are changing. I talk to people about collars everyday and it gets easier every day to sell them on e collars.

Anyway I've said enough, keep an eye on my youtube and google my name anytime your interested to see what I'm up to.

The futures bright, the futures e collar!

Regards

Adam

Your question was:

So my answer is no.

Dogs before being trained to walk on a loose lead there will inevitably be a taught lead during that training at some point. Deliberate tug? Nope, never have.

Has a choke chain ever been used on my dogs? Yes, on one of them when she was taken to what turned out to be a sadistic b****** who yanked so hard she screamed. I walked out and learned how to train her in a compassionate and caring way so she was never yanked again.

Single event learning. After that once only yank on that damned chain my dog took weeks to recover, I have spent the time between that session (many years ago) and now feeling guilt that I ever allowed the guy near her even for that short, brief time. BUT, learning did take place, mine. I learnt that training a dog should not include the application of pain or discomfort as it isn't needed, nor is it warranted when there are many, many other methods out there that work, are enjoyable for all concerned and don't destroy the trust between dog and owner

I just wish I hadn't learned that lesson at the expense of my beautiful girl who is, unfortunately, no longer with us

Azz is free to decide the rules of his forum. I think people forum that forums are a priviledge, not a right, and Azz runs it from his own choice. He decided to make it a dog forum - if he wants to make it a dog forum that doesn't support e-collars then he's well within his rights. If he wants to ban members that upset the majority of other members, he's free to. If you don't like it, you can go elsewhere, but don't try to argue the "free speech thing" because every forum has its rules or they'd be chaos. If you want total free speech then tell Azz to let on all the advertisers, the spambots, the trolls with nothing better to do than wind people up..and why stick to just dogs, how about some car enthusiasts, some fox hunters, some BNP members...everyone has the right to freedom of speech, right?
I've been admin and moderator of several forums and freedom of speech just doesn't work.

Thank you Azz.

Adam, keep wishing.

Sorry pal, but you're a deluded fool if you think that and a fool that poses a hazard to any dog owner unfortunate enough to risk your 'guarantees' which, believe me, are a disaster waiting to happen

Oh per-lease Adam, dream on.... I think you need a trip to the doctors, you are deluded!!

How on earth does a tug equate to an electric shock?!!