Hahaha. Brilliant!

and tools designed to deliberately inflict pain and discomfort much more so

AZZ

No nothing I have read on here has changed my mind about my methods, in fact most of it has reinforced it!

I don't train with pain, I train with discomfort at most! And even then my training is still mostly reward based!
Even if training with discomfort was socially unacceptable (its not) I would not care, I consider dogs having poor lives, being pts ect unacceptable and I care more about dogs than my own acceptance.
The fact is we all train with aversives (see first post) and aversives are uncomfortable (mental or physical).

I don't believe that my methods are outdated/inhumane, I believe they are the most up to date humane methods around (see first post).
I agree people can (at times) achieve similar results with other methods but don't see how that effects me?
I believ my methods will achieve quicker results with any dogs, also you only have to look around to see the number of restrictions other trainers put on there results. E;g no husky/ml off lead, no dogs off lead with stock, no dogs off lead and allowed to chase anything ect. This is just a general comment not aimed at anyone.

Re fear ect, my methods change the way the dog thinks about the trigger (by changing its behaviour around the trigger), this elminates the fear very quickly unlike other techniques were the dog retains fear for longer, thus making those techniques less humane.

To use the spider analogy, my training would change how you view the spider, you would feel comfortable around it not fearful, you guys are thinking in terms of positive punishment, I'm working in terms of negative reinforcement.

Skyesmum, I work for no one but myself. Rescues can only afford to care for their dogs (mostly) not behaviour help them, most difficult ones get euthanised|!

Keep em coming

Adam

Illogical argument! Masking one fear by providing a greater fear does not eliminate the first and most certainly does not make the creature become comfortable around it. It just changes the body language which it knows will be punished.

You are using positive punishment! To achieve the negative reinforcement, you are applying the positive punishment, holding that positive punishment in place then relieving when, in this case, the masking effect has taken place, at which time you are then and only then using negative reinforcement.

You may try to misuse the technical jargon all you wish, but you will be caught out quickly - as in this case

In that case I don't think Dogsey has anything else to offer you, and you it.

This thread, despite being named 'Adam's thread' was actually a thread for others to try to persuade you to use kinder, more acceptable ways to train. As that has not happened (and your adamance that that won't happen), there is no longer a 'positive' aspect or purpose for this thread.

Your account will also be closed because as I mentioned, I don't think you have anything positive to add to this community (which I hasten to add, is a community for dog lovers). Additionally, you having a vested interest in the promotion of shock collars makes many members feel troubled as it verges on advertising, specifically - promoting something that many members consider dog abuse.

All this has also led to us reviewing our membership policy. And we will be rolling out changes for that soon - needless to say we will no longer allow accounts for anyone with a financial interest in the promotion of electric shock collars. I.e shock collar sellers, or trainers who use shock collars and offer a service to the public.

Puppy farmers will also be added and we will review the policy as and when needed.

good news.

Thank you Azz. You're the best!!

Great Azz - about time!!

Thank you x x x

Great news Azz!!