Hi All!
Have to admit i wasn't sure last night. There seemed to be lots of telling the dogs off and reasserting the position of the handler and not a great deal of positive reinforcement, from what I could see. ( I was ironing and had OH messing with big pup and little pup at the time so may have missed it!!!)
Admittedly the owners did need to learn to be more forceful with their dogs ( was that poor retriever bored or what, don't think it was refusing to walk think it had given up the will to live tee hee hee!!!!!!) As Oh said though, do the trainers not use food rewards at all??? Yes, Mic used food with the weimy, but again, it was to teach it NOT to do something rather than rewarding it for doing well.
i've always stuck up for the programme but as I say I wasn't sure last night as it all seemed a bit harsh. Perhaps it was the way it was edited??? It wasn't just because of the alpha roll, it worked and was probably appropriate at the time?! (Hmmm not sure...wasn't there...hmmmm jury still out on that one... ) it just all seemed very negative. Where was the cooked chicken lure...
Have to admit, I'm very tired and maybe on a general, 'gosh my pup has the runs and I haven't slept for what seems like an eternity' downer, but....bit disheartened...
Still enjoyed it though!

mmm I agree to an extent on the alpa roll thing, some moron out there is going to try that with their dog and get the face bitten off


That woman was making my blood boil. From what I saw the dog had the Halti on for the first time and then when it tried to scratch it off it's face she was encouraging the handler to snap it's head up of course it's going to try and get it off it's face until it becomes used to it. Stupid Cow. She wouldnt be allowed near my dogs either. The amount of gear on that dog when they took it to town to 'train' it was astonishing .. it was like doggy S&M ! You dont need all that gear !

That golden was hilarious. I still giggle at that footage of him refusing to walk. At least the owners have been taught how to play with him and be a lot less boring !

I think the Alpha roll proved to be very effective - clearly Mic knows what he's doing and was able to submit the dog in one move - what we wouldn't want, as has been mentioned already, is some kind of 'tussle' taking place between dog and owner where both are trying to win - that could be disastrous. The dog instantly became calmer and more receptive

I think there are some dogs which need more assertive type of training, particularly if they have started biting through dominance

hi bagoratz,
I agree some dogs need more assertive handling, I had one just like it, but wouldn't have resorted to an alpha roll, partly because he was too big, but also because I was able to use my voice and controls that I knew he could do...so...if he started to bite/mouth/get generally stupid, he'd be told 'no' very firmly, the handler (me or OH) would stand up and tell him to sit, as soon as he sat he was verbally praised, and stroked calmly, if he started again, all of that was done again. Over time it worked and he doesn't do it anymore. BUT Mic didn't know the dog as well as we knew ours AND he was put (or put himself into) a difficult position. As I say, don't know how I feel about it, I wasn't there, but wouldn't use the method myself.

At the end of the day Mic knows whats he's doing and what he did with that dog he's proberbally done many times before. He did what he had to do under the circumstances, he did it quickly with little fuss and got the desired affect which was respect.

Well said

I completely understand your point, more than one way to skin a cat (apologies for the expression!)

I think that both in the wild and domestically dogs/wolves can be a lot more merciless towards each other than we are to them and it doesn't really upset me to see that approach being used in the right circumstances

I think the dog had been allowed to rule the roost to such an extent that when Mic tried to say 'no' he just saw it as a challenge or opportunity to get into a tussle and started to bite - he had no boundaries and no understanding that he was not pack leader

It wasn't a tactic used again throughout the rest of the training - I just think in that split second with the danger of somebody being hurt (including himself!) Mic employed a tactic to calm the situation that he knew as an experienced handler

I quite agree that we do not want to see this being replicated by 'joe public' for fear of consequences, nor do we want people to start using negative quick fixes and undoing all the good work that certain behaviourists have done in recent years to give people more insight into the canine mind and behaviour - in fact only the other day in my local park some t*at got in between two dogs having a spat with each other and pinned one of them to the floor shouting at it to calm down....prat....the dogs walk together a lot in ou group and it was just your typical spat over something stupid. When it kicked off a bit later with a couple of the others I just shook my bottle with pasta (dried!) in it and they all dispersed. Think he felt a tad silly......

I just WISH that they had made it much clearer at the beginning of the programme that methods should not be replicated with expert advice - the way it just flashes up at the end of the programme kind of gives an implication that it's no big deal if people do - do you know what I mean?

totally agree with you!

But Mic Knows what he is Doing!!! .This programme is going into 100's of Homes where people don't. He has some responsibility ,to the viewers whether we like it or not. People see things like that think its easy(Because Mic made it look easy) Try it and get badly Hurt. If After doing it Mic or someone else said Never ever do this on your Dog as it can be very dangerous etc. it would not have been so bad .And then if someone is stupid enough to still try then thats there fault..


I know there is a warning at the end of the programme but you have to be a speed reader, with bl**dy good eyesight to catch it.

I have emailed the BBC to highlight these issues and ask if they can add a voice over caution at the begiining of the programme to warn people about the dangers of attemptig to replicate methods before getting expert advice

Will let you all know what they say!

Fingers crossed!