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ClaireandDaisy
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Location: Essex, UK
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08-12-2010, 12:01 PM

The How To Train Without Hurting or Frightening Your Dog Thread!

Like it says on the tin.

As an antidote to those threads promoting sales of quick fix and painful training devices:

Please post your thoughts, experiences and videos showing happy dogs being trained with love and kindness to show that it can be done.
Thanks!
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ClaireandDaisy
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08-12-2010, 12:23 PM
Case History: Daisy
Daisy was a 1yo GSD bitch, handed in at Rescue. Rehomed swiftly - no time for assessment.
It became immediately apparent that she was extremely people-aggressive, giving little warning. She was totally unsocialised and appeared to have had no training at all.
From her reactions to the outside world, I doubt she had been out of her garden. She had a particular hatred for grey haired women and people in uniform. From her lack of warnings I assume she had been punished for growling. From her savage defence of `her` space I assume she had been encouraged to be fierce or teased.

Training Method.
Behaviourists, trainers etc. - limited success. One trainer made her worse by pinning her down. She is unreliable around trainers since that time.
I found Barbara Sykes book about her rehabilitation of her collie. She used a step-by-step approach. I left the house. if the dog reacted we went home. It took a week to get down the road, but we did it.
A Halti allowed me to walk in more safety (for others). We spent weeks walking up and down Southend High St, doing the Watch Me thing and rewarding.
Then I found a good trainer who held classes for aggressive dogs. He stood motionless while a muzzled Daisy tried to kill him. Then when she stopped he patted her head and moved on. She was learning that previously successful strategies didn`t work any more. After 9 months she sighed and let him stand beside her without trying to bite him.
Yeyy!
What worked for us was a combination of persistent and relentless basic training (reward based) plus a re-working of her patterns of behaviour.
Hurting her would have made her worse. Frightening her was impossible - she is the sort of dog who meets force with force.
But now she will play with children in the Park. It took 3 years and I never lifted a hand to her.
(Getting her to accept dog trainers will, unfortunately, take a bit longer. )
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Lotsadogs
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08-12-2010, 12:25 PM
Clicker training is fantastic.
Lure based training is great for foody dogs
Tug training is great for play focussed dogs
Body blocking is great for highly driven, intelligent, body movement orientated dogs
Games playing is great for quick thinking fun filled dogs
Whispering is great for lack of attention dogs
All training is good for most dogs. And most training is good for all dogs

Haven't got many videos of my dogs available at the moment, but there is this one. My youngest dog learning to work sheep. His stop has been clicker trained before seeing sheep. Not 100% reliable in this environment, but still I was dead chuffed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbo1O...layer_embedded
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Lotsadogs
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08-12-2010, 12:28 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
Case History: Daisy
Daisy was a 1yo GSD bitch, handed in at Rescue. Rehomed swiftly - no time for assessment.
It became immediately apparent that she was extremely people-aggressive, giving little warning. She was totally unsocialised and appeared to have had no training at all.
From her reactions to the outside world, I doubt she had been out of her garden. She had a particular hatred for grey haired women and people in uniform. From her lack of warnings I assume she had been punished for growling. From her savage defence of `her` space I assume she had been encouraged to be fierce or teased.

Training Method.
Behaviourists, trainers etc. - limited success. One trainer made her worse by pinning her down. She is unreliable around trainers since that time.
I found Barbara Sykes book about her rehabilitation of her collie. She used a step-by-step approach. I left the house. if the dog reacted we went home. It took a week to get down the road, but we did it.
A Halti allowed me to walk in more safety (for others). We spent weeks walking up and down Southend High St, doing the Watch Me thing and rewarding.
Then I found a good trainer who held classes for aggressive dogs. He stood motionless while a muzzled Daisy tried to kill him. Then when she stopped he patted her head and moved on. She was learning that previously successful strategies didn`t work any more. After 9 moths she sighed and let him stand beside her without trying to bite him.
Yeyy!
What worked for us was a combination of persistent and relentless basic training (reward based) plus a re-working of her patterns of behaviour.
Hurting her would have made her worse. Frightening her was impossible - she is the sort of dog who meets force with force.
But now she will play with children in the Park. It took 3 years and I never lifted a hand to her.
(Getting her to accept dog trainers will, unfortunately, take a bit longer. )
Well done in being so determined to help your girl!

Its fantastic when you see the differnces evolve isn't it! Shame you had some bad experiences with some trainers, there are good and bad everywhere, but great that you had the drive to find better ones. Brilliantly well done you!
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MichaelM
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08-12-2010, 12:56 PM
Case History: 9 year old GSD/Husky x

In the care of SSPCA. Cataract, possibly with deteriorated vision to one eye. Not immediately apparent -arthritis in hips, loose ligaments in shoulders causing pain/limp. No other information provided/known. Appeared to have had no training, no sit, no down, pulled like a train.

Training Method.

APDT classes including dedicated recall workshop, slow progress, though definite improvement. During this time, it became apparent that he could be reactive to other dogs (he was onlead due to poor recall).

Vet/Xray diagnosed arthriitis/shoulder problems, put on pain medication and hydrotherapy.

Problems with other dogs escalated culminating in 2 dogs needing vet treatment, and a visit from police & dog warden. Trainer unable to offer any assistance regarding behaviour.

Sought further advice: degree qualified behaviourist suggested I manage him and keep away from other dogs. BIPDT used by GSDR Scotland suggested we could work through this.

Went to bipdt class for almost 1 year - encouragement and reward has resulted in a huge improvement over time, Locky able to socialise, and follows basic commands. He's been with us for 2 years now and it's been an emotional roller coaster though hugely rewarding.

A work in progress (with an oh b%&$£ moment just the other week).

Locky and Ella in the water
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IsoChick
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08-12-2010, 12:58 PM
Tip:

If your trainer is doing something you don't like, or disagree with - speak up!

Don't attend classes for week after week and grumble about what they are doing behind their back.

You won't enjoy it, your dog won't enjoy it, you'll waste your money and not get anything out of it!

Don't be afraid to find a new trainer, or a different way of training!
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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08-12-2010, 01:10 PM
Lovely idea for a thread
excuse quality of videos - I get stage fright and dont often have people to help me film

Mia - came to me a stray with dog agression issuse, food guarding, totaly no training or ability to walk on the lead

Methods - clicker

For food agression - treated her for watching Ben eat, taught leave it and to work for food. Also showed her that her food is safe and noone will ever take her food away from her
1st try at a leave it exercise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCAe0Ccy9E8

Dog aggression - along with many other things keeping her at a distance she could cope with being other dogs being there, making being around other dogs rewarding and using 'control unleashed' 'look at that' training
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vlMvz4V9Qs

and just using the clicker to get her to use her brain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk-iJ8t5aGY

and Ben was timid and v unconfident on changes in surfaces he was walking on and things moving under his feet - agility helped lots
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEoVRGKylFI
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rune
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08-12-2010, 01:20 PM
Georges story is here

http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=107643

There is so much more than I wrote but it gives the idea.

Polly is different again, she is blind now which doesn't help but she is coping. She learnt to trust again with the help of the clicker and some ground rules. She bit a few people at the vets recently but now actually greets strangers and doesn't bite them when they fuss her.

Pippin----what can I say-------he must be about 10 now and we can just about touch most of his body, it took over 9 mths for him to come close enough to learn that it could be nice to be scratched under his chin. He still freaks out and he is not treated as a 'normal' dog might be but he enjoys his walks in the fields around the house and he plays ball. He was a huge learning curve and there didn't seem to be any comparable cases around.

Flighty the foxhound was another freaky dog who had lived on the streets, she learned to trust that we wouldn't beat her when she came home after escaping, that she was likely to get a bowl of food not a clout, so she began to come back with a little more confidence.

rune
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ClaireandDaisy
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08-12-2010, 04:58 PM
Case History: Bran Hound X

Picked up in Greece, crippled with arthritis. Dog aggressive, therefore kennelled alone. Sent to England where his behaviour made it impossible for his adopted owner or fosterer to keep him
Issues: Dog aggression, no recall, couldn`t be walked on his harness due to determined pulling. Totally untrained and a hooligan.

Having seen hounds hunted on lines abroad I immediately realised how the walking on a harness would have triggered his learned behaviour (nose down and run). I switched him to a half-check and re-trained. Problem solved.
Manners in the house were swiftly solved by my own dogs putting him firmly in his place.
Aggression - I muzzled him and walked him on a line. I asked dog owners if he could run with theirs. Gradually he learned manners. He is absolutely fine now.
He was not let offlead around game unless I had a good book and nothing else to do that day.
Basic obedience. Well, he walks well, recalls (provided he`s not on a scent) and sits. That took a couple of years because he is the dimmest dog I`ve ever met!
I just figured I could be more stubborn than him. No quick fix methods would have worked. It was a question of working with what was there.
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Milk maid
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08-12-2010, 08:38 PM
Just want to say what a nice thread this is
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